Kitcars and catalytic converters

[Comadis]

can somebody highlight when a cat is a "must" in a kit?

as i understand is has to do with the age of the engine so a pre-1995engine must be used if you go the carburator way...later engines need an injection system and a cat.

so this would not be ok...or am i wrong:

http://pistonheads.com/sales/1493297.htm

2002model, duratec engine, bike carbs, no cat.

i want to point out that i used the above link as an example, only.

[p1doc]

one that paases the iva would be useful lol
martin

[singlecoil]

It would have needed an older engine in it to pass the SVA test. I assume that the (presumably Pinto) engine has now been swapped for the Duratec now that the SVA has been passed. The problem for the new owner will be the MOT test. If the tester spots that it is a modern engine then he has to test it to the standards in force at the time the engine was produced, and the car described will fail that. If they had gone for a 'q' registration then there would have been no problem.

Edited by singlecoil on Monday 1st March 09:18

[p1doc]

but doesnt q reg devalue the car??
martin

[singlecoil]

p1doc said:

but doesnt q reg devalue the car??
martin

It wouldn't bother me on a 7, might look a bit odd on a Cobra, but in the end it's a matter of taste, so the value of the car is not a fixed thing, it will vary depending on the attitude of the person assessing the value. A lot depends on how much they know about cars too, if it was me I would assess the whole car, the quality of the build, the type and condition of the components, how well documented everything was, but then that's me. The next guy might be different.

[Comadis]

i think a q-plate is, especially today with strikter emissons, an advantage.

visual smoke test only.

so back to the original posting:

am i right with my estimations about fitting a cat?

[singlecoil]

Comadis said:

am i right with my estimations about fitting a cat?

Basically a catalyst is needed for the IVA test in order to lower the emmissions to the point at which the engine will pass that part of the test. How strict that part of the test is depends ont he documented age of the engine. If that information isn't available then the engine will be tested to current standards (as are all road cars). If there is documentation that proves that the engine is sufficiently old to qualify for a previous (lower) standard then the engine fitted will be tested to that older standard.

The catalyst itself doesn't actually need to be present on any car, but is normally needed to get meet the emmisions standards that apply to egines produced after August 1995 (in other words, from cars on 'N' registration and later), or so I believe. A person planning to build a kit with any particular engine would be well advised to check for themselves.

HTH.

[p1doc]

or in other wors it is complicated unfortunately,there is a link to iva manual at top of kit car forum that is prety useful
martin

[Comadis]

how an engine will meet a modern emission standard without a cat fitted? if that would be possible why the manufacturers of "normal" cars fit a cat?

so from my knwoledge a duratec engine will be always post 1995 and therefore will always need an injection system plus a cat?

[singlecoil]

Comadis said:

how an engine will meet a modern emission standard without a cat fitted? if that would be possible why the manufacturers of "normal" cars fit a cat?

so from my knwoledge a duratec engine will be always post 1995 and therefore will always need an injection system plus a cat?

Certainly, there is no way the car in the advert would pass an IVA test as it stands. As I said earlier, it must have passed fitted with something like an old Pinto, and has been changed since.

[Paul.B]

singlecoil said:

Comadis said:

how an engine will meet a modern emission standard without a cat fitted? if that would be possible why the manufacturers of "normal" cars fit a cat?

so from my knwoledge a duratec engine will be always post 1995 and therefore will always need an injection system plus a cat?

Certainly, there is no way the car in the advert would pass an IVA test as it stands. As I said earlier, it must have passed fitted with something like an old Pinto, and has been changed since.

This makes even more sense as the car has an age related plate! I wouldn't worry too much about the fact it now has a lovely Duratec engine. Most MOT testers would look at the Reg number and think pre '95 and test to those standards. Even on bike carbs it would pass these easily.

Paul.B

[Dave Dax builder]

I've been putting old Chevy engines through cat tests with carbs fitted for a year or two now. (I have to as a pro builder.)
They won't quite meet the regs on their own so I fit a cat and that clears up the last of the CO. once I have the AF ratio right with a bit of careful carb tuning of course.
Even passed a cat test with a 1966 427 Ford side oiler ( Original Cobra engine to those who are not familiar).


Not sure how relavent the above is but hope it helps.

[ColinM50]

I've got a Royale Sabre with a 1988 Ford Sierra 1.8CVH engine on an age related F plate and am thinking of changing to a brand new Zetec (double the horsepower is tempting). Checked with local DVLA office and they said if I change the engine then they're "pretty sure" I'll need to pass the IVA test. To be fair the guy wasn't 100% certain but said he was pretty sure that was the case.

Not sure if this helps at all since the original Q was about cats, but may be worth calling DVLA or VOSA and asking 'em?

[Steve_D]

If your Sabre is registered as a Sabre then it is a straight engine change. You fill out your V5 and send it off along with the receipt for the replacement engine. The receipt has to be on headed paper. If you don't have such a receipt then you will need to include an engineers report stating that the replacement engine (include the number) is fitted to the vehicle. A garage or MOT station should be able to do this for you.

The only reason for needing an IVA would be if it is still registered as a Sierra/Granada or if you were trying to claim a lower tax bracket based on emissions.

Steve

[Tony427]

My understanding of the regulations are that at the IVA test the vehicle is tested to the emissions requirements as dictated by the age of the engine.

Thus, for example, you could put in a 1977 2 litre Pinto into any suitable vehicle and the emissions test will be to the standards applicable to the 1977 engine.

These emissions testing standards are then noted on the V5 and on the vehicles history file at the DVLA and these will stay with the vehicle for ever more, and these levels will be what every subsequent MOT test will test to.

Thus once through the IVA, and the emissions testing levels are set, you can simply do an engine change to a later, more powerful and cleaner running engine ( even without cats), you inform the DVLA of the engine/ cc change as normal and there you go, a car with a modern engine that is legally allowed to run without cats and even on carbs.

As long as you get your firebreathing Duratec to run as clean or cleaner than a 1977 Pinto at MOT time, which surely should not be a problem, you are good to go.

Cheers,

Tony