Autorcar: "Jaguar plans radical overhaul"
Discussion
Link to Autocar article
Ravi Kant, Tata VC: "We’re having a debate about a small car. It has to happen if you want to keep the brand alive. We need an entry-level car."
... please, please, please don't do that! I hope that newly appointed JLR exec Carl-Peter Forster lives up to his reputation and does not allow this to happen. We've been there with the X-Type and the S-type and it ended in a disaster. I see absolutely no way for Jaguar to compete with BMW or Audi in the middle class segment without adding further damage to its brand reputation. It's a fragile brand, take care for god's sake.
What's wrong with having upper class models only in the lineup? Certain luxury goods just need to be expensive: You aspire to it - sometimes for years. And when you're finally in the position to afford it, you realize your long-held dream.
I recently browsed through the Jaguar section in the PH classifieds: To be honest, I found it quite shocking how many Diesel engined jags were up for sale. Personally, I think that Diesel engines and Jaguar don't fit together. But if it's absolutely necessary for Jaguar to be profitable, then so be it. But an entry level Jag is suicide. Please, don't do it - build a sexy sports car below the XK instead! (Maybe it's time to get Keith Helfet back into the design studios.)
What's your view on this?
Ravi Kant, Tata VC: "We’re having a debate about a small car. It has to happen if you want to keep the brand alive. We need an entry-level car."
... please, please, please don't do that! I hope that newly appointed JLR exec Carl-Peter Forster lives up to his reputation and does not allow this to happen. We've been there with the X-Type and the S-type and it ended in a disaster. I see absolutely no way for Jaguar to compete with BMW or Audi in the middle class segment without adding further damage to its brand reputation. It's a fragile brand, take care for god's sake.
What's wrong with having upper class models only in the lineup? Certain luxury goods just need to be expensive: You aspire to it - sometimes for years. And when you're finally in the position to afford it, you realize your long-held dream.
I recently browsed through the Jaguar section in the PH classifieds: To be honest, I found it quite shocking how many Diesel engined jags were up for sale. Personally, I think that Diesel engines and Jaguar don't fit together. But if it's absolutely necessary for Jaguar to be profitable, then so be it. But an entry level Jag is suicide. Please, don't do it - build a sexy sports car below the XK instead! (Maybe it's time to get Keith Helfet back into the design studios.)
What's your view on this?
I am a life long jaguar fan. The x type and s type left me cold, however the xfr is a car that I might buy one day.
So it shows that jaguar can get it right sometimes.
The market for premium saloons is very competitive, I would love to see a sub xk sports car.
If they are going to do an x type replacement it will have to be very very good.
So it shows that jaguar can get it right sometimes.
The market for premium saloons is very competitive, I would love to see a sub xk sports car.
If they are going to do an x type replacement it will have to be very very good.
Tricky. If the brand is to survive it needs to make money. Jag have to build Eco-friendly cars to compete. The BMW's have very good CO2 standards, Jag recently got that loan to develop hybrid models. A small car is an easy way to get a fuel efficient model into the range.
However word is the XF will get a small (2.2D) engine to have a cheaper entry level product. It will grow the range to include an estate and coupe version. I think the XE roadster will be here soon. I guess a small saloon would compete with the C Class, Lexus IS and 3 Series. I don't think they'd get it wrong like before. After all their new CEO was there in the PAG group when Ford made that decesion the last time.
I do however agree with yah that Jaguars have a niche following in the Market, mass producing and cheapening the brand isn't where I would want Jaguar to go. Stay premium and get it right is my vote.
However word is the XF will get a small (2.2D) engine to have a cheaper entry level product. It will grow the range to include an estate and coupe version. I think the XE roadster will be here soon. I guess a small saloon would compete with the C Class, Lexus IS and 3 Series. I don't think they'd get it wrong like before. After all their new CEO was there in the PAG group when Ford made that decesion the last time.
I do however agree with yah that Jaguars have a niche following in the Market, mass producing and cheapening the brand isn't where I would want Jaguar to go. Stay premium and get it right is my vote.
Going cheap has wrecked BMW as a quality brand imho, why follow them there? Who aspires to a 3-series these days? Anyway, Tata isn't having a 'debate' about a small car, it produces tens of thousands of them and the only debate can be whether to stick a Jaguar badge on it, to which the inevitable answer has got to be NO.
Why don't they have a new sub-Jaguar brand called the tiger or the leopard or the tabbycat or some such thing and in that way get a little of the Jaguar happydust on their cheap stuff without tarnishing the whole operation?
Why don't they have a new sub-Jaguar brand called the tiger or the leopard or the tabbycat or some such thing and in that way get a little of the Jaguar happydust on their cheap stuff without tarnishing the whole operation?
Edited by cardigankid on Thursday 4th March 21:00
cardigankid said:
Going cheap has wrecked BMW as a quality brand imho, why follow them there? Who aspires to a 3-series these days? Anyway, Tata isn't having a 'debate' about a small car, it produces tens of thousands of them and the only debate can be whether to stick a Jaguar badge on it, to which the inevitable answer has got to be NO.
Why don't they have a new sub-Jaguar brand called the tiger or the leopard or the tabbycat or some such thing and in that way get a little of the Jaguar happydust on their cheap stuff without tarnishing the whole operation?
Surely everyone and his dog aspires to a 3 series....they sell shed loads of them?! I think there is a place for a new smaller Jag, which they can also produce a coupe from?Why don't they have a new sub-Jaguar brand called the tiger or the leopard or the tabbycat or some such thing and in that way get a little of the Jaguar happydust on their cheap stuff without tarnishing the whole operation?
Edited by cardigankid on Thursday 4th March 21:00
I think building another front wheel drive retro thing would be a bad idea, but they seem to moving forwards design wise, so they can surely get it right this time
mondayo said:
Surely everyone and his dog aspires to a 3 series....they sell shed loads of them?!
Which is why the 3 series became the 90s Cortina.You certainly wouldn't want one if you had any desire to stand out from the flock.
As to producing another smaller car, I think they must at some point if they want to survive. But I think timing will be critical. The X-Type failed in its task. I know BMW's marketting people were worried that Jaguar would be the one brand that could dent their dominance of this market place. But X-Type wasn't the car to do that.
Before Jaguar can attack that market place again I think they need to build up aspirational image of the product range in the eyes of potential "small saloon" customers. Once they are back in the position were there are a significant number of people who fancy a Jag but either can't afford it or want one but smaller then they are back in the position to be able to launch a new small saloon.
Until then "halo models" like the XKR, XFR and new XJ need to build up the lust levels.
Edited by a8hex on Friday 5th March 00:04
J888SXY said:
But the 3 series is far far superior car to the X-type.
Yes, have experience of both. In fact two X-types.
I don't have experience of both and I've never driven an X Type, nor been a fan of the concept or styling. However I don't see what the fuss is about with the current 3 series, having owned an E92 for 18 months and got rid of it due to boredom. All the things that I loved about my previous BMWs are gone. Wooden ride, rear end skipping about on bumpy corners, traction control butting in far too much making you think mechanical grip isn't there, and lifeless steering with no feel whatsoever seem to have replaced the delicacy and sophistication that made them a first class driver's car in the past. Interior is still quality though, despite iDrive which is not great. You can get Individual Audio which is in a totally different league compared to B&W or Harman Kardon - if there's a better audio system available in any car I've yet to hear it. And it has excellent seats.Yes, have experience of both. In fact two X-types.
Overall I'd say there's definitely room for another competitor with fresh ideas in that segment - the 3 series is not the obvious choice it once was. I'd be much more inclined to take a look at the C Class if I was in the market for that type of car again. The 3 series just happens to be the default choice right now. I don't see why Jaguar couldn't take them on with a brand new car, and succeed. Rear wheel drive is essential though in that segment - maybe A4/A5 would be taking bigger chunks out of the 3 series market if they weren't nose heavy perpetual understeerers.
Have to admit my new E90 is specced up to the eyeballs interior-wise but I believe the finish is superior quality-wise to C-class and A4 as well. I also have an E36 M3 and late XJS.
With hindsight I think I was always going to struggle with X-types as I was always comparing them with my XJ and XJS. If they had been the first and only Jaguars I'd had I would probably think differently about them.
With hindsight I think I was always going to struggle with X-types as I was always comparing them with my XJ and XJS. If they had been the first and only Jaguars I'd had I would probably think differently about them.
I think a small Jaguar has a place - if you like wood and leather but can't fit an XJ into your drive or shopping space, or want more than 25mpg.
Were the X-Type and S-Type disasters? You see plenty of them. If they didn't make money, then neither will a sexy sports car, unfortunately.
Were the X-Type and S-Type disasters? You see plenty of them. If they didn't make money, then neither will a sexy sports car, unfortunately.
You mean this: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/...
Mattt said:
You mean this: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/...
Sorry, does nothing for me. The only thing Jaguar about it is the badge. The F-Type from 10 years ago was the one to build - and that was canned in favour of the X-Type diesel I believe.Your selling Jaguar way to short. The X type is the only jag I would buy as it has the two things that are deal breakers for me and a daily transportation vehicle (the TVR is the fun car). I will not buy an automatic nor will I buy a car that does not offer awd. Like most Americans (aside from the the stick) to not offer awd and call yourself a modern lux. car company is just plain pathetic. Besides, my recently purchased Jaguar depreciation special X-type is above and beyond the best winter driving car I've ever driven. Including the countless subies I've owned, numerous bmmers, audis and quite a few mercedes.
Now if they offered a real XF with a manual tranny and awd I'd bite (2-3 years after new). Until then I wouldn't even walk into a Jag showroom.
Now if they offered a real XF with a manual tranny and awd I'd bite (2-3 years after new). Until then I wouldn't even walk into a Jag showroom.
tr7v8 said:
Diderot said:
I think Jag was incredibly stupid not to offer an X type with the 2.7 diesel with AWD. Now that would have been a great all-rounder.
Could have been stupid maybe but it just doesn't fit, end of!Diderot said:
tr7v8 said:
Diderot said:
I think Jag was incredibly stupid not to offer an X type with the 2.7 diesel with AWD. Now that would have been a great all-rounder.
Could have been stupid maybe but it just doesn't fit, end of!cbcbcb said:
Diderot said:
tr7v8 said:
Diderot said:
I think Jag was incredibly stupid not to offer an X type with the 2.7 diesel with AWD. Now that would have been a great all-rounder.
Could have been stupid maybe but it just doesn't fit, end of!Gassing Station | Jaguar | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff