Dog has Diabetic ketoacidosis
Discussion
my dog of 7 has been unwell and has spent most of the weekend at the vets (£400 )a night stay.(not that i begrudge paying)
what i am wondering is if any other dog folk have a diabetic dog and what to expect or any advice ,seems he is improving abit (flattened the pup of 1 year after his breckie)
going to have to give him 2 insulin jabs a day . ?
is this only available thru the vets ..?
here he is with his older (bigger brother)
[url]
|http://thumbsnap.com/v/xrEUV3Xp.jpg[/u
what i am wondering is if any other dog folk have a diabetic dog and what to expect or any advice ,seems he is improving abit (flattened the pup of 1 year after his breckie)
going to have to give him 2 insulin jabs a day . ?
is this only available thru the vets ..?
here he is with his older (bigger brother)
[url]
|http://thumbsnap.com/v/xrEUV3Xp.jpg[/uHe has type 1 diabetes which is insulin dependent. I'm pretty sure its treated the same in dogs as humans, so yes insulin injections will be required.
Ketoacidosis happens with diabetes when there is not sufficient insulin to reduce the rate at which the liver breaks down fat.
When the live burns fat it produces ketones. As the liver runs away burning fat without the insulin to control it, the body effectively poisons itself as your blood turns acidic.
Having had ketoacidosis, i can say its seriously not nice! I'm pretty sure you'd die of dehydration before the ketones killed you though.
Ketoacidosis is completely treatable is caught in time though, you need to control the level of insulin correctly, reducing the blood sugar level and controlling the liver, replace the lost fluids flushing the ketones out of the blood, basically
Ketoacidosis happens with diabetes when there is not sufficient insulin to reduce the rate at which the liver breaks down fat.
When the live burns fat it produces ketones. As the liver runs away burning fat without the insulin to control it, the body effectively poisons itself as your blood turns acidic.
Having had ketoacidosis, i can say its seriously not nice! I'm pretty sure you'd die of dehydration before the ketones killed you though.
Ketoacidosis is completely treatable is caught in time though, you need to control the level of insulin correctly, reducing the blood sugar level and controlling the liver, replace the lost fluids flushing the ketones out of the blood, basically
he seems to be drinking and urinating alot , will this be flushing the "ketones" out of his system,
sleeping alot and getting spoilt (laid out on settee).
just been doing some internet surfing and hadnt realized how serious it was .could have lost him on friday night.
picture taken on thursday night....really ill but still wanted to kill the zebra.
sleeping alot and getting spoilt (laid out on settee).
just been doing some internet surfing and hadnt realized how serious it was .could have lost him on friday night.
Edited by road hog on Sunday 7th March 13:47
picture taken on thursday night....really ill but still wanted to kill the zebra.
Edited by road hog on Sunday 7th March 13:49
Not a dog but our cat is diabetic - there are more out there than you realise. Once you get the insulin level right the dog will be drinking less. You will need to be careful what you feed him (and what extras he eats) to control his blood sugar.
Our cat has been on 2 jabs a day for about 8 years now and is pretty well, so hopefully you should be OK (assuming the dog lets you jab him, our cat doesn't care as long as he has his face in his biccies bowl when you do it).
Our cat has been on 2 jabs a day for about 8 years now and is pretty well, so hopefully you should be OK (assuming the dog lets you jab him, our cat doesn't care as long as he has his face in his biccies bowl when you do it).
Drinking alot, urinating alot and sleeping alot are side effect of a high blood sugar level and will return to normal when his sugar level is right.
If he's been at the vets for treatment i would have expected them to have corrected this before letting him out though?
It's a bit counter-intuitive but having lots of sugar in the blood does the complete opposite to making you really energetic.
In the case of ketoacidosis it makes you feel utterly nauseous, extremely tired and groggy, dehydrated even though you are drinking as much as you physically can, you're always running for a piss which just makes feely tired worse, your body heats up, you breathe more rapidly and you are very restless. Its f
king horrible and i can't imagine being in that situation and not being able to shout "help" to someone, so give you're dog all the love he deserves!
If he's been at the vets for treatment i would have expected them to have corrected this before letting him out though?
It's a bit counter-intuitive but having lots of sugar in the blood does the complete opposite to making you really energetic.
In the case of ketoacidosis it makes you feel utterly nauseous, extremely tired and groggy, dehydrated even though you are drinking as much as you physically can, you're always running for a piss which just makes feely tired worse, your body heats up, you breathe more rapidly and you are very restless. Its f
king horrible and i can't imagine being in that situation and not being able to shout "help" to someone, so give you're dog all the love he deserves!road hog said:
he seems to be drinking and urinating alot , will this be flushing the "ketones" out of his system,
sleeping alot and getting spoilt (laid out on settee).
just been doing some internet surfing and hadnt realized how serious it was .could have lost him on friday night.
sleeping alot and getting spoilt (laid out on settee).
just been doing some internet surfing and hadnt realized how serious it was .could have lost him on friday night.
My old dog was diabetic.
She needed 2 injections a day.
One just after her breakfast one after her supper.
Its no biggie. It doesn't seem to bother them.
In fact I used to give her a piece of cheese after, she used to go and sit next to the fridge (where you keep the insulin) waiting for her injection
She may go blind though. That happens a lot too. Mine did.
Again, it's just something they take in their stride.
Now and again you'll notice her start to pee more and sleep more, it just means the dose needs adjusting.
She lived for 5 happy years after being diagnosed.
If I can help with any questions I'd be happy to.
She needed 2 injections a day.
One just after her breakfast one after her supper.
Its no biggie. It doesn't seem to bother them.
In fact I used to give her a piece of cheese after, she used to go and sit next to the fridge (where you keep the insulin) waiting for her injection
She may go blind though. That happens a lot too. Mine did.
Again, it's just something they take in their stride.
Now and again you'll notice her start to pee more and sleep more, it just means the dose needs adjusting.
She lived for 5 happy years after being diagnosed.
If I can help with any questions I'd be happy to.
Congratulations to Mrs Roadhog for keeping the sofa so clean. We have an English and Irish - plus a Collie. And the leather sofa is a mess.
We have our own health issue as the Irish has a gluten related villus atrophy - the dog version of coeliac disease - and the Irish is the only breed that it has been proven in. Luckily its just a case of feeding him the right food now after diagnosis.
With regard to prescription medicines a vet must give you a prescription if you ask for it - and must make it a repeat if needed for up to ?6? months. You can then go online or to another pharmacy to get the drugs. This of course assumes that the stuff you need is prescription only and costs a few quid.
You will find though that many vets will try and wriggle out of things, or refuse a repeat and want to charge you each month for giving the prescription. It stinks. You can try other vets in your area if needed. However, its early days. Get him settled down first. I would like to think a vet would be a bit easy on charges if there is no insurance in place - but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Setters rule (the sofa) !
We have our own health issue as the Irish has a gluten related villus atrophy - the dog version of coeliac disease - and the Irish is the only breed that it has been proven in. Luckily its just a case of feeding him the right food now after diagnosis.
With regard to prescription medicines a vet must give you a prescription if you ask for it - and must make it a repeat if needed for up to ?6? months. You can then go online or to another pharmacy to get the drugs. This of course assumes that the stuff you need is prescription only and costs a few quid.
You will find though that many vets will try and wriggle out of things, or refuse a repeat and want to charge you each month for giving the prescription. It stinks. You can try other vets in your area if needed. However, its early days. Get him settled down first. I would like to think a vet would be a bit easy on charges if there is no insurance in place - but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Setters rule (the sofa) !
Routine, stability and regular monitoring is now essential.
Once dogs diagnosed it is usually for life (Occ entire females will self correct once spayed) Cats also hormonal so can often waive in and out of diabetes and not always need injections.
We used to test urine daily but not done so often these days. Vets will probably recommend glucose curve in near future esp if not stabilisng (blood tests throughout the day to ck how insulin is working on glucose levels)
Good stable diet essential. Keep to same diet, feed same amounts at same time every day. Some vets will adv inj before food, I don't agree with this as if doesn't eat and already had insulin can cause a problem.
Exercise needs to be same daily.
There are diabetic diets out there they are very expensive and there is still a ongoing debate re: how improtant they actually are though I believe they are better than using e.g.bakers!
Use a diet containing oats rather than cereals. Insoluble fibre can help slow down the relese of glucose reducing peaks and troughs so a lot of px diabetic diets contain it. Home made diet will be difficult to get right every day.
Fructosamine levels should be ck'd regularly, these monitor control over several weeks, some vets will suggest home blood testing (take a pin prick of blood from ear) but should use animal calibrated glucose monitors.
Blindness is a common factor but can be dramatically slowed with good control.
Good luck with him, glad to see he is back home. Remember to keep some honey, dextrose sweets on standby should he ever have a hypoglycamic attack (wobbly, off legs etc) due to having too much insulin and not enough food. Hyperglycamia presents more slowly (the symptoms you witnessed) hypo is more acute.
The Vet may be able to offer more diagnostic advise if he sees this, my notes are from a nursing point of view only really,
If you can get insulin on the internet it'll be vital you get the right type and you will need a px from the vet first. Same with the needles, Essential you get the right ones. Useful site below
http://www.cat-dog-diabetes.com/dogs-nutrition.asp
Once dogs diagnosed it is usually for life (Occ entire females will self correct once spayed) Cats also hormonal so can often waive in and out of diabetes and not always need injections.
We used to test urine daily but not done so often these days. Vets will probably recommend glucose curve in near future esp if not stabilisng (blood tests throughout the day to ck how insulin is working on glucose levels)
Good stable diet essential. Keep to same diet, feed same amounts at same time every day. Some vets will adv inj before food, I don't agree with this as if doesn't eat and already had insulin can cause a problem.
Exercise needs to be same daily.
There are diabetic diets out there they are very expensive and there is still a ongoing debate re: how improtant they actually are though I believe they are better than using e.g.bakers!
Use a diet containing oats rather than cereals. Insoluble fibre can help slow down the relese of glucose reducing peaks and troughs so a lot of px diabetic diets contain it. Home made diet will be difficult to get right every day.
Fructosamine levels should be ck'd regularly, these monitor control over several weeks, some vets will suggest home blood testing (take a pin prick of blood from ear) but should use animal calibrated glucose monitors.
Blindness is a common factor but can be dramatically slowed with good control.
Good luck with him, glad to see he is back home. Remember to keep some honey, dextrose sweets on standby should he ever have a hypoglycamic attack (wobbly, off legs etc) due to having too much insulin and not enough food. Hyperglycamia presents more slowly (the symptoms you witnessed) hypo is more acute.
The Vet may be able to offer more diagnostic advise if he sees this, my notes are from a nursing point of view only really,
If you can get insulin on the internet it'll be vital you get the right type and you will need a px from the vet first. Same with the needles, Essential you get the right ones. Useful site below
http://www.cat-dog-diabetes.com/dogs-nutrition.asp
Edited by becksW on Tuesday 9th March 09:02
Edited by becksW on Tuesday 9th March 09:07
bazking69 said:
A mate has a cat with diabetes that requires daily jabs. A PITA to catch a cat that knows what is coming by all accounts.
'Do' him while he's eating his food. Works for us and the cat doesn't care. I don't think he even notices it now unless the needle is blunt (into the scruff of the neck sideways).Targarama said:
bazking69 said:
A mate has a cat with diabetes that requires daily jabs. A PITA to catch a cat that knows what is coming by all accounts.
'Do' him while he's eating his food. Works for us and the cat doesn't care. I don't think he even notices it now unless the needle is blunt (into the scruff of the neck sideways).
I hope you are able to enjoy his comnpany and he yours for as long as is possible.
I talk to him when I'm lonesome like; and I'm sure he understands. When he looks at me so attentively, and gently licks my hands; then he rubs his nose on my tailored clothes, but I never say naught thereat. For the good Lord knows I can buy more clothes, but never a friend like that. ~W. Dayton Wedgefarth
http://www.quotegarden.com/dogs.html
I talk to him when I'm lonesome like; and I'm sure he understands. When he looks at me so attentively, and gently licks my hands; then he rubs his nose on my tailored clothes, but I never say naught thereat. For the good Lord knows I can buy more clothes, but never a friend like that. ~W. Dayton Wedgefarth
http://www.quotegarden.com/dogs.html
One of our dogs had diabetes
Lived happily for 6 yrs or so with it fairly well controlled.
Used to give her the injection first thing in the morning then fed her, then another one in the eve and feed her again. She was always happy to have the injection as she knew she was getting food.
We used some of the Urine Analysis Sticks to check her BM's but to be honest it seemed fairly well controlled.
We ended up getting the insulin from a friendly local pharmacist rather than buying it from the vet who seemed to think that because it was for a dog that it gave them the right to charge a fortune.
Either way, good luck hope all goes well
Lived happily for 6 yrs or so with it fairly well controlled.
Used to give her the injection first thing in the morning then fed her, then another one in the eve and feed her again. She was always happy to have the injection as she knew she was getting food.
We used some of the Urine Analysis Sticks to check her BM's but to be honest it seemed fairly well controlled.
We ended up getting the insulin from a friendly local pharmacist rather than buying it from the vet who seemed to think that because it was for a dog that it gave them the right to charge a fortune.
Either way, good luck hope all goes well
2 5HAN said:
One of our dogs had diabetes
Lived happily for 6 yrs or so with it fairly well controlled.
Used to give her the injection first thing in the morning then fed her, then another one in the eve and feed her again. She was always happy to have the injection as she knew she was getting food.
We used some of the Urine Analysis Sticks to check her BM's but to be honest it seemed fairly well controlled.
We ended up getting the insulin from a friendly local pharmacist rather than buying it from the vet who seemed to think that because it was for a dog that it gave them the right to charge a fortune.
Either way, good luck hope all goes well
It's great if you can get a stable diabetic, makes life a lot easier, it's when they don't stabilise it becomes more of a problem.Lived happily for 6 yrs or so with it fairly well controlled.
Used to give her the injection first thing in the morning then fed her, then another one in the eve and feed her again. She was always happy to have the injection as she knew she was getting food.
We used some of the Urine Analysis Sticks to check her BM's but to be honest it seemed fairly well controlled.
We ended up getting the insulin from a friendly local pharmacist rather than buying it from the vet who seemed to think that because it was for a dog that it gave them the right to charge a fortune.
Either way, good luck hope all goes well
I assume you still got a px from the vets for your insulin as obviously it would not have been legal for your pharmacist just to sell you insulin over the counter.
(Oh and for the record these days by law we have to px animal licensed drugs first (insulin inc) which costs x times as much as the human equivalent even though it is the same, blame the cascade system!)
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