wtcc rule disparity

[wildman0609]

Just been reading car spec's for WTCC for this year (i assume they were the same last year), the Diesel Seat's have 280hp the same as the chevy's and the bmw's but have 450nm torque and the petrol cars can only manage around 250nm. the Seat's are only 15kg heavier than the others as well.
also everyone uses 6 speed sequential boxes but bmw uses 5 speed H pattern.
i can see that the rules are there to make close racing but I'm sure the manufacturers are there to "win on sunday, sell on monday" clearly some cars are better developed to keep up with other cars with more torque.

what i'm trying to say is the bmw's are keeping up with the seat's when they clearly have a disadvantage.
do you guy's agree Seats have technical advantages

[jamiebae]

The BMW is RWD so has a big advantage at the start, and is lighter on tyres, didn't realise they ran an H pattern box though. The Seats are heavier on front tyres as the engine is heavier than the Chevrolet one so the small weight penalty is enough to equalise it I guess.

[FourWheelDrift]

BMWs have always used H pattern gearboxes, they save 30kg on minimum weight compared against using a VK Super 2000 homologated sequential box.

Minimum weight, rear wheel drive cars.
Original H-pattern manual - 1170kg
Sequential box - 1200kg

[Cartard]

Weren't they going to fit a taller first gear to the RWD cars to stunt the off line performance?

[jamiebae]

Cartard said:

Weren't they going to fit a taller first gear to the RWD cars to stunt the off line performance?

I think that's BTCC rather than WTCC.

Alex Zanardi used a sequential box in his 3 series last year but I guess he has a good excuse!

[Cartard]

jamiebae said:

Cartard said:

Weren't they going to fit a taller first gear to the RWD cars to stunt the off line performance?

I think that's BTCC rather than WTCC.

Alex Zanardi used a sequential box in his 3 series last year but I guess he has a good excuse!

Apologies, I thought the rules were the same.

[jamiebae]

Cartard said:

jamiebae said:

Cartard said:

Weren't they going to fit a taller first gear to the RWD cars to stunt the off line performance?

I think that's BTCC rather than WTCC.

Alex Zanardi used a sequential box in his 3 series last year but I guess he has a good excuse!

Apologies, I thought the rules were the same.

Broadly the same but with some subtle differences. I think BTCC BMWs use a sequential box for example.

[wildman0609]

i had forgotten to think about race length and tyre wear and advantages off the line when i posted this. i was just looking at power to weight and gear boxes.
i assume they all run on the same size tyres and wheels?

i recon it'd be better to watch wtcc this year as btcc looks like its not gonna happen

[jamiebae]

wildman0609 said:

i recon it'd be better to watch wtcc this year as btcc looks like its not gonna happen

What do you mean? BTCC is going to happen, and looks like it could be very interesting this season too.

[wildman0609]

jamiebae said:

wildman0609 said:

i recon it'd be better to watch wtcc this year as btcc looks like its not gonna happen

What do you mean? BTCC is going to happen, and looks like it could be very interesting this season too.

with 4 driver signed up and no manufacturers involved it doesn't look very promising.

why do you think it'll be interesting?

[jamiebae]

wildman0609 said:

jamiebae said:

wildman0609 said:

i recon it'd be better to watch wtcc this year as btcc looks like its not gonna happen

What do you mean? BTCC is going to happen, and looks like it could be very interesting this season too.

with 4 driver signed up and no manufacturers involved it doesn't look very promising.

why do you think it'll be interesting?

There are more than 4 drivers signed up and no manufacturers doesn't mean rubbish racing. Last year the championship winner and runner-up were both driving non-factory cars. BTCC has no dreary sounding diesels and races on far more interesting tracks than the boring street circuits where a lot of WTCC races are held too.

[Blue Meanie]

jamiebae said:

Alex Zanardi used a sequential box in his 3 series last year but I guess he has a good excuse!

Yes, but he also has a weight advantage

• Oh christ, I'm going to go to hell!*

[MonkeyHanger]

wildman0609 said:

with 4 driver signed up and no manufacturers involved it doesn't look very promising.

why do you think it'll be interesting?

We heard all this last year except it was "only 1 manufacturer" etc. Nothing is confirmed until Media Day anyway and even then things can change before round 1.

I'm sitting watching the WTCC, seeing 3 different cars and most of them sound worse than my Hoover.

Edited by MonkeyHanger on Sunday 7th March 18:40

[jamiebae]

Blue Meanie said:

jamiebae said:

Alex Zanardi used a sequential box in his 3 series last year but I guess he has a good excuse!

Yes, but he also has a weight advantage

• Oh christ, I'm going to go to hell!*

I could see that one coming a mile away!

[wildman0609]

jamiebae said:

wildman0609 said:

jamiebae said:

wildman0609 said:

i recon it'd be better to watch wtcc this year as btcc looks like its not gonna happen

What do you mean? BTCC is going to happen, and looks like it could be very interesting this season too.

with 4 driver signed up and no manufacturers involved it doesn't look very promising.

why do you think it'll be interesting?

There are more than 4 drivers signed up and no manufacturers doesn't mean rubbish racing. Last year the championship winner and runner-up were both driving non-factory cars. BTCC has no dreary sounding diesels and races on far more interesting tracks than the boring street circuits where a lot of WTCC races are held too.

defiantly agree about the circuits being better, can't stand the crappy street circuits the WTCC insists on visiting.
who cares about the diesels sounding dreary when the other cars are 4pots, flat 6's and v8 any day for noise not the BTCC.

who are the drivers which are signed up?

besides Andrew Jordan, Andy Neate, Tom Boardman, Tom chilton and John George

sorry 5 drivers

[jamiebae]

wildman0609 said:

jamiebae said:

wildman0609 said:

jamiebae said:

wildman0609 said:

i recon it'd be better to watch wtcc this year as btcc looks like its not gonna happen

What do you mean? BTCC is going to happen, and looks like it could be very interesting this season too.

with 4 driver signed up and no manufacturers involved it doesn't look very promising.

why do you think it'll be interesting?

There are more than 4 drivers signed up and no manufacturers doesn't mean rubbish racing. Last year the championship winner and runner-up were both driving non-factory cars. BTCC has no dreary sounding diesels and races on far more interesting tracks than the boring street circuits where a lot of WTCC races are held too.

defiantly agree about the circuits being better, can't stand the crappy street circuits the WTCC insists on visiting.
who cares about the diesels sounding dreary when the other cars are 4pots, flat 6's and v8 any day for noise not the BTCC.

who are the drivers which are signed up?

besides Andrew Jordan, Andy Neate, Tom Boardman, Tom chilton and John George

sorry 5 drivers

Paul O'Neill, Dave Pinkney, a couple in the new BMW team and the AMD Golf, plus a few others which aren't public knowledge yet.

I know 4 pot petrols don't sound that great, but even they sound a lot better than the glorified Dyson sound coming from the Leon TDi. Even the Audi R15 with a V10 diesel sounds rubbish, the 4 pots are even worse.

[wildman0609]

jamiebae said:

wildman0609 said:

jamiebae said:

wildman0609 said:

jamiebae said:

wildman0609 said:

i recon it'd be better to watch wtcc this year as btcc looks like its not gonna happen

What do you mean? BTCC is going to happen, and looks like it could be very interesting this season too.

with 4 driver signed up and no manufacturers involved it doesn't look very promising.

why do you think it'll be interesting?

There are more than 4 drivers signed up and no manufacturers doesn't mean rubbish racing. Last year the championship winner and runner-up were both driving non-factory cars. BTCC has no dreary sounding diesels and races on far more interesting tracks than the boring street circuits where a lot of WTCC races are held too.

defiantly agree about the circuits being better, can't stand the crappy street circuits the WTCC insists on visiting.
who cares about the diesels sounding dreary when the other cars are 4pots, flat 6's and v8 any day for noise not the BTCC.

who are the drivers which are signed up?

besides Andrew Jordan, Andy Neate, Tom Boardman, Tom chilton and John George

sorry 5 drivers

Paul O'Neill, Dave Pinkney, a couple in the new BMW team and the AMD Golf, plus a few others which aren't public knowledge yet.

I know 4 pot petrols don't sound that great, but even they sound a lot better than the glorified Dyson sound coming from the Leon TDi. Even the Audi R15 with a V10 diesel sounds rubbish, the 4 pots are even worse.

still not a lot of cars is it

[jamiebae]

wildman0609 said:

jamiebae said:

wildman0609 said:

jamiebae said:

wildman0609 said:

jamiebae said:

wildman0609 said:

i recon it'd be better to watch wtcc this year as btcc looks like its not gonna happen

What do you mean? BTCC is going to happen, and looks like it could be very interesting this season too.

with 4 driver signed up and no manufacturers involved it doesn't look very promising.

why do you think it'll be interesting?

There are more than 4 drivers signed up and no manufacturers doesn't mean rubbish racing. Last year the championship winner and runner-up were both driving non-factory cars. BTCC has no dreary sounding diesels and races on far more interesting tracks than the boring street circuits where a lot of WTCC races are held too.

defiantly agree about the circuits being better, can't stand the crappy street circuits the WTCC insists on visiting.
who cares about the diesels sounding dreary when the other cars are 4pots, flat 6's and v8 any day for noise not the BTCC.

who are the drivers which are signed up?

besides Andrew Jordan, Andy Neate, Tom Boardman, Tom chilton and John George

sorry 5 drivers

Paul O'Neill, Dave Pinkney, a couple in the new BMW team and the AMD Golf, plus a few others which aren't public knowledge yet.

I know 4 pot petrols don't sound that great, but even they sound a lot better than the glorified Dyson sound coming from the Leon TDi. Even the Audi R15 with a V10 diesel sounds rubbish, the 4 pots are even worse.

still not a lot of cars is it

I'm going to stop now before I reveal anything I'm not supposed to, but I'd be surprised if there are fewer cars than there were last year. We might lose a couple of the really slow cars at the back end of the grid, and Tempus/Bamboo are now in WTCC but almost all the rest will be back, along with some newcomers too. Let's wait until race 1 at Thruxton, or at least the media day before jumping to conclusions

[Marc W]

Things in the BTCC are very rarely officially announced until media day, occasionally afterwards. There was very little officially announced this time last year either. Doesn't mean there isn't plenty going on behind the scenes!

[freedman]

Well the first WTCC round from Brazil was about as interesting as watching paint dry