m12s explained?
Discussion
Iam looking to swap my 911 for a noble m12. Iam aware that there is a 2.5 and a 3.0. Iam i right in thinking apart from the obvious fact that the 3.0 has a larger engine it also has a LSD?. Is there any other differences? from the reviews ive read there not much to choose betweeen, but is the 3.0 worth the extra couple of grand over the 2.5? Also what year did the facelift take place? is it possible to get a 3.0 pre facelift? as i perfer the look of the older car. Any info u have on the differences would be much appreciated.
Jim, the model you are looking for is the GTO-3 which is the round headlight car with the larger litre engine, HTH 
Noble M12
The Noble M12 is a two-door, two-seater model that has evolved through three coupe versions (GTO, GTO-3, and the current GTO-3R). A convertible variant (The M12 GTC) has been shown at motorshows but is yet to make production. All M12s have been powered by modified turbocharged Ford Duratec V6 engines. The M12 GTO used a 2.5-litre version of the engine, while the GTO-3 and GTO-3R were upgraded to the 3.0-litre Duratec. Power has progressed from 310 bhp (231 kW) to 352 bhp (262 kW).
The M12 has a full steel roll cage, steel frame, and G.R.P. (fibre glass) composite clam shell body parts. These cars are extremely lightweight and stiff. Although looking to be track derived, the M12 performs very well on both road and track, with surprisingly good ride quality, but a rigid feel. This is achieved by having no anti-roll bars on the car. This allows suspension to be made hard without making a back breaking ride.
The GTO3R weighs 2380 lb (1080 kg), has 352 bhp (262 kW) and does 0-60 mph (0-97 km/h) in 3.8 seconds. In their initial review of the M12 GTO3R, Road and Track indicated a 0-60 mph performance of 3.3 seconds, but subsequently listed it as 3.7 seconds. Its top speed is listed as 170 mph (274 km/h). Lateral Gs are reported in excess of 1.22.
Noble M12
The Noble M12 is a two-door, two-seater model that has evolved through three coupe versions (GTO, GTO-3, and the current GTO-3R). A convertible variant (The M12 GTC) has been shown at motorshows but is yet to make production. All M12s have been powered by modified turbocharged Ford Duratec V6 engines. The M12 GTO used a 2.5-litre version of the engine, while the GTO-3 and GTO-3R were upgraded to the 3.0-litre Duratec. Power has progressed from 310 bhp (231 kW) to 352 bhp (262 kW).
The M12 has a full steel roll cage, steel frame, and G.R.P. (fibre glass) composite clam shell body parts. These cars are extremely lightweight and stiff. Although looking to be track derived, the M12 performs very well on both road and track, with surprisingly good ride quality, but a rigid feel. This is achieved by having no anti-roll bars on the car. This allows suspension to be made hard without making a back breaking ride.
The GTO3R weighs 2380 lb (1080 kg), has 352 bhp (262 kW) and does 0-60 mph (0-97 km/h) in 3.8 seconds. In their initial review of the M12 GTO3R, Road and Track indicated a 0-60 mph performance of 3.3 seconds, but subsequently listed it as 3.7 seconds. Its top speed is listed as 170 mph (274 km/h). Lateral Gs are reported in excess of 1.22.
Jim, in my opinion a well sorted 2.5 is as good as any other M12. There were very definite weaknesses including gearbox and ecu. This applied to the 3.0l too but I don't think it was aproblem on 3Rs. If you bought a 2.5 or 3.0, be sure to buy one that has the LSD fitted in the box and the ecu upgrade. These items would cost you a packet to replace yourself. Other than those 2 items, there will be a list of things that can go wrong that others on the forum could tell you about, but then it goes with the territory.
Some say the 2.5 was the better handling car with its weight advantage. I have a friend with a 3R and a heavy right foot, it definitely breaks away quicker than mine. In the hands of The Stig it probably wouldn't happen. But most of us are human!
Get a ride in any M12 and you'll be smitten. I've never been in any Porsche that would do the same for you for the same money. Or even double the money!
(p.s. I will now await a b
king from other owners over my 3R disrespect!)
Some say the 2.5 was the better handling car with its weight advantage. I have a friend with a 3R and a heavy right foot, it definitely breaks away quicker than mine. In the hands of The Stig it probably wouldn't happen. But most of us are human!
Get a ride in any M12 and you'll be smitten. I've never been in any Porsche that would do the same for you for the same money. Or even double the money!
(p.s. I will now await a b
king from other owners over my 3R disrespect!)Thanks for that i know where iam now with the 3s, Rs and such. When you say problems how common are these? i was lookin at gettin a tvr t350 but after reading up on them like all tvrs they spend more time being fixed than being driven.How realiable are theses things? I appreciate that on a forum you get a distorted impression because people only tend to post when they have issues and the people whos cars are fine never say anything.
If i can find myself either a 2.5 or 3.0, with the lsd and ecu swap i should have realativly trouble free motoring?
Have most cars with these ecu issues had them sorted? And is there a way to tell when looking at cars?
Sorry for all the question yov've probably heard and anwsered them time and time again.
If i can find myself either a 2.5 or 3.0, with the lsd and ecu swap i should have realativly trouble free motoring?
Have most cars with these ecu issues had them sorted? And is there a way to tell when looking at cars?
Sorry for all the question yov've probably heard and anwsered them time and time again.
They are all much of a muchness. The M12 GTO 2.5, M12 GTO 3.0, M12 GTO-3R and the M400.
The M12 2.5 is likely to be the lowest cost option, but still huge bang for buck. An early build model like mine circa 18-25k. For this model, look for "essential" upgrades like the MBE harness and ECU, as the Magnet Marelli was effectively solid state and unmappable. With the MBE upgrade the 2.5 can push out 350 horses, equivalent to the 3.0 stock, but lacking a few torques, courtesy of the smaller volume.
Handling in the truest sense the M12 2.5 ever so slightly had the edge as it did not come with a LSD, but look for one that has as it makes the car a little more forgiving, but the front end becomes looser, and may be subject to very slight understeer if pushed hard.
The 3.0l and 3R circa 350 - 425hp respectively (book figures), but expect them to be slightly down were just a natural evolution of the car. Larger capacity, more torque, 6 speed box - the 5th gear has a known weakness on the 6 speed box, and the 5 speed box has the advantage of quicker 0-60 and 0-100 times, though only marginally - the 6th is a boon for motorways though.
The M400, again an evolution of the 3R, circa 425hp but with a facelift and far better lights, if you can say that on a Noble.
The one thing that they all have in common - They all stick to the road like st to a blanket and leave virtually any production car for dead.
There will always be the fanboys of each respective marque, but they will all agree, every one makes them smile on every outing.
The M12 2.5 is likely to be the lowest cost option, but still huge bang for buck. An early build model like mine circa 18-25k. For this model, look for "essential" upgrades like the MBE harness and ECU, as the Magnet Marelli was effectively solid state and unmappable. With the MBE upgrade the 2.5 can push out 350 horses, equivalent to the 3.0 stock, but lacking a few torques, courtesy of the smaller volume.
Handling in the truest sense the M12 2.5 ever so slightly had the edge as it did not come with a LSD, but look for one that has as it makes the car a little more forgiving, but the front end becomes looser, and may be subject to very slight understeer if pushed hard.
The 3.0l and 3R circa 350 - 425hp respectively (book figures), but expect them to be slightly down were just a natural evolution of the car. Larger capacity, more torque, 6 speed box - the 5th gear has a known weakness on the 6 speed box, and the 5 speed box has the advantage of quicker 0-60 and 0-100 times, though only marginally - the 6th is a boon for motorways though.
The M400, again an evolution of the 3R, circa 425hp but with a facelift and far better lights, if you can say that on a Noble.
The one thing that they all have in common - They all stick to the road like s
t to a blanket and leave virtually any production car for dead.There will always be the fanboys of each respective marque, but they will all agree, every one makes them smile on every outing.
Stella Artois said:
The 3.0l and 3R circa 350 - 425hp respectively (book figures),
Both the 3 and 3R have the same figures, the 3R is not 425, that's the M400.Stella Artois said:
though only marginally - the 6th is a boon for motorways though.
Not really. 6th is not an overdrive, the ratios are about the same split of 6 gears instead of 5.snuffy said:
Stella Artois said:
The 3.0l and 3R circa 350 - 425hp respectively (book figures),
Both the 3 and 3R have the same figures, the 3R is not 425, that's the M400.Stella Artois said:
though only marginally - the 6th is a boon for motorways though.
Not really. 6th is not an overdrive, the ratios are about the same split of 6 gears instead of 5.Stella Artois said:
However with the extra 500cc and a 6th gear, motorway driving is more refined compared with a 2.5 and a 5 speed box, that was what I was getting at.
I thought you meant it lowered the revs ( which is what you want when cruising at motorways speeds ). I think it revs quite high in 6th at motorway speeds. I'd have to look the ratios up to be certain of course.Gassing Station | Noble | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff