Engine managment light & traction control light
Discussion
Hi Guys,
for the past couple of months I've had issues with the engine managment light coming on. To cut a long and boring story short, I have had the air mass flow filter replaced. The car felt much better afterwards performance wise, as before, there seemed to be a small loss of power.
I had the air mass flow filter replaced on Saturday, and today, the light came back on. About 30 seconds later, the traction control warning light came on too. This has happened before also.
The engine managment light always stays on, but the traction control light goes off when the ignition is turned off. It only ever comes on after the engine managment light has come on, never on its own.
Taking it back to the garage this weekend, but just wondered if anyone had had a similar problem or any ideas as to what this could be?
Please answer in a simple way as I have no idea about the mechanics of cars!
Many thanks,
Gemma.
for the past couple of months I've had issues with the engine managment light coming on. To cut a long and boring story short, I have had the air mass flow filter replaced. The car felt much better afterwards performance wise, as before, there seemed to be a small loss of power.
I had the air mass flow filter replaced on Saturday, and today, the light came back on. About 30 seconds later, the traction control warning light came on too. This has happened before also.
The engine managment light always stays on, but the traction control light goes off when the ignition is turned off. It only ever comes on after the engine managment light has come on, never on its own.
Taking it back to the garage this weekend, but just wondered if anyone had had a similar problem or any ideas as to what this could be?
Please answer in a simple way as I have no idea about the mechanics of cars!
Many thanks,
Gemma.
Both the Engine and ABS lights coming on together is probably something simple like a brake light switch. But that wont be the cause of the slight lack of power.
When warning lights come on, (ABS or Engine even Airbag) it means the control module (brain of that system) has seen somthing wrong and logged a fault in its memory.
We could all guess what the likely cause (e'g for engine) coolant temp sensor, MAF, lambda probe etc. But the only way to know why the light is on, is to have the fault memory read.
This is the first step of diagnosis.
-IF you can find out, what fault codes they pulled out of the car, this would be really helpfull and maybe I could tell you exactly whats wrong with it-
The problem the garage face is somtimes the fault the car has (like your slight loss of power) doesnt log a code, and you have to go by what is likely to cause the symptoms you have, MAF would be the first thing to try for lack of power over say 4000rpm, Sadly MAF faults hardly ever put the light on, or log a code and a faulty MAF definatly wont put an ABS or ESP light on.
Hope I'm making scence,
Basically you might have two different faults, one that puts both the lights on, and another thats causing the slight lack of power. Sounds like the garage tried to fix the lack of power by changing the MAF (Mass Air Flow sensor) but dont appear to have done anything about the warning lights.
Hope this helps.
When warning lights come on, (ABS or Engine even Airbag) it means the control module (brain of that system) has seen somthing wrong and logged a fault in its memory.
We could all guess what the likely cause (e'g for engine) coolant temp sensor, MAF, lambda probe etc. But the only way to know why the light is on, is to have the fault memory read.
This is the first step of diagnosis.
-IF you can find out, what fault codes they pulled out of the car, this would be really helpfull and maybe I could tell you exactly whats wrong with it-
The problem the garage face is somtimes the fault the car has (like your slight loss of power) doesnt log a code, and you have to go by what is likely to cause the symptoms you have, MAF would be the first thing to try for lack of power over say 4000rpm, Sadly MAF faults hardly ever put the light on, or log a code and a faulty MAF definatly wont put an ABS or ESP light on.
Hope I'm making scence,
Basically you might have two different faults, one that puts both the lights on, and another thats causing the slight lack of power. Sounds like the garage tried to fix the lack of power by changing the MAF (Mass Air Flow sensor) but dont appear to have done anything about the warning lights.
Hope this helps.
Hello,
thanks for the reply's.
Yeah sorry - it would probably have been useful to say which car it was! Haha - I have a MK4 Golf 1.8T GTI on a 52 plate. Had the cambelt changed a year ago (in case that makes a difference?)
They plugged it in to the computer and it came up with 2 faults. 1 was the Mass Air flow sensor, and the other I'm not sure, but the garage said it may need throttle body strip and clean. He did say that the Mass Air flow sensor could effect the other fault so they would sort this first, then see how it was. Car was fine after this, then 4 days later the engine management light (exhaust emissions warning light) came back on again). With the traction control light, which went off when ignition was turned off.
Took car back to the garage, and they re set the computer and said to see how it is as it may have just been a glitch, but it may be that it needs throttle body doing. Four days later, light (engine management light only) was back on again.
So I was going to take the gar back to get the throttle body strip and clean when I got paid, but the light has now gone out?? It was on for about a week in total after the garage re set it.
There is still a slight loss of power, and car is very jittery on starting from cold.
Hope this makes sense - it doesn't to me!
Thanks again,
Gemma.
thanks for the reply's.
Yeah sorry - it would probably have been useful to say which car it was! Haha - I have a MK4 Golf 1.8T GTI on a 52 plate. Had the cambelt changed a year ago (in case that makes a difference?)
They plugged it in to the computer and it came up with 2 faults. 1 was the Mass Air flow sensor, and the other I'm not sure, but the garage said it may need throttle body strip and clean. He did say that the Mass Air flow sensor could effect the other fault so they would sort this first, then see how it was. Car was fine after this, then 4 days later the engine management light (exhaust emissions warning light) came back on again). With the traction control light, which went off when ignition was turned off.
Took car back to the garage, and they re set the computer and said to see how it is as it may have just been a glitch, but it may be that it needs throttle body doing. Four days later, light (engine management light only) was back on again.
So I was going to take the gar back to get the throttle body strip and clean when I got paid, but the light has now gone out?? It was on for about a week in total after the garage re set it.
There is still a slight loss of power, and car is very jittery on starting from cold.
Hope this makes sense - it doesn't to me!
Thanks again,
Gemma.
This is gonna sound a bit stupid, but its just how they work, often if the ECU says the MAF is faulty, The MAF is actually fine and the car has a boost leak somewhere, dump valve area most likely on 1.8T. IF the other code was "pressure drop before throttle body" that points to dump valve even more.
I dont like the sound of that garage, Sounds like they may have misdiagnosed the cause of your engine warning light, (that fact that they replaced the MAF and the light still comes on confirms this) and they still havnt checked for the reason why the traction control light is coming on. To check for why the traction control light is coming on, they need to read the ABS ECU's fault memory not just the engines.
(1) You are sure its the other light is the traction control light??
the lower one on the right
(2) Have you got a VAG specialist in your area who will know how to fix it propperly.
I dont like the sound of that garage, Sounds like they may have misdiagnosed the cause of your engine warning light, (that fact that they replaced the MAF and the light still comes on confirms this) and they still havnt checked for the reason why the traction control light is coming on. To check for why the traction control light is coming on, they need to read the ABS ECU's fault memory not just the engines.
(1) You are sure its the other light is the traction control light??
the lower one on the right(2) Have you got a VAG specialist in your area who will know how to fix it propperly.
My garage is a VAG specialist, and I have to say I do trust them.
Yes it is the lower light on the right that has been coming on. Traction control. But this light has only ever come on when the exhaust emissions warning light has come on? and only until the engine is turned off. The ABS light has never come on.
This is the light which has been on most of the time:
Sorry about the pic - I found it on google images!
All lights are off now which I don't understand.
So do you think it may have only needed the throttle body strip and clean rather than the MAF?
Cheers,
Gem.
Yes it is the lower light on the right that has been coming on. Traction control. But this light has only ever come on when the exhaust emissions warning light has come on? and only until the engine is turned off. The ABS light has never come on.
This is the light which has been on most of the time:
Sorry about the pic - I found it on google images!
All lights are off now which I don't understand.
So do you think it may have only needed the throttle body strip and clean rather than the MAF?
Cheers,
Gem.
Good they are the lights I was thinking of, I wasnt suggesting you didnt know or anything, its just I have alot of customers who say there ESP light is on and it turns out to be EPC and stuff like that. Sounds similar, but completely different system, so it always pays to check.
OK if they are a VAG specialist I'm a bit more inclinde to believe they do know what there doing.
In there defence the throttle body is the only thing related to traction control that isnt part of the ABS system, so it does make sence that they think its that.
Without seeing both the fault codes its hard to say if they did the right thing or not, but although we change alot of MAF's they very very rarly log a code, normally in our workshop if its says it needs a MAF you almost know its not that.
We normally clean out the throttle the body because the engine is hunting, (reving up and down slightly at idle) Even then its often a temp fix, we always say, well we can try cleaning it out, but if it keeps happening you will need a new one, there not particually cheap things throttle bodys.
If the lights are staying out, then they might have been right and its was just a glitch, or its an intermitant thing, and as soon as it plays up again the lights will be back on.
But if the lights come back on take it straight back to them. When you take it back, ask it they could just check the ABS fault memory, (to make sure the traction control light isnt coming on for any other reason)
Also ask if its got a boost or vacuum leak and to check the dump valve. They will be in that area to get to the throttle body, so shouldnt charge any extra really. I see dump valves playing up quite alot on older TT's, can cause the MAF to fail or show up a fault that does exist. (TT's have the same engine as your Golf)
OK if they are a VAG specialist I'm a bit more inclinde to believe they do know what there doing.
In there defence the throttle body is the only thing related to traction control that isnt part of the ABS system, so it does make sence that they think its that.
Without seeing both the fault codes its hard to say if they did the right thing or not, but although we change alot of MAF's they very very rarly log a code, normally in our workshop if its says it needs a MAF you almost know its not that.
We normally clean out the throttle the body because the engine is hunting, (reving up and down slightly at idle) Even then its often a temp fix, we always say, well we can try cleaning it out, but if it keeps happening you will need a new one, there not particually cheap things throttle bodys.
If the lights are staying out, then they might have been right and its was just a glitch, or its an intermitant thing, and as soon as it plays up again the lights will be back on.
But if the lights come back on take it straight back to them. When you take it back, ask it they could just check the ABS fault memory, (to make sure the traction control light isnt coming on for any other reason)
Also ask if its got a boost or vacuum leak and to check the dump valve. They will be in that area to get to the throttle body, so shouldnt charge any extra really. I see dump valves playing up quite alot on older TT's, can cause the MAF to fail or show up a fault that does exist. (TT's have the same engine as your Golf)
Excellent - Thank you - all makes sense
"We normally clean out the throttle the body because the engine is hunting, (reving up and down slightly at idle) Even then its often a temp fix, we always say, well we can try cleaning it out, but if it keeps happening you will need a new one, there not particually cheap things throttle bodys." - Yes this is what my car appears to be doing at idle - not a smooth sounding engine - very jittery, especially first thing on a morning and when I first get in the car to go home from work.
So, do you think its worth me taking the car back to them and asking them to do the throttle body strip and clean anyway, and getting them to check the ABS fault memory, dump valve and to see it if has a boost or vacuum leak? What order do I get them to do these things? Checks first then if all ok throttle body strip and clean?
Really hope it doesn't need a new one if you're saying they're not cheap - I'm sick of spending money on cars - I used to have a MK1 GTI which bled me dry!
Thanks again.
"We normally clean out the throttle the body because the engine is hunting, (reving up and down slightly at idle) Even then its often a temp fix, we always say, well we can try cleaning it out, but if it keeps happening you will need a new one, there not particually cheap things throttle bodys." - Yes this is what my car appears to be doing at idle - not a smooth sounding engine - very jittery, especially first thing on a morning and when I first get in the car to go home from work.
So, do you think its worth me taking the car back to them and asking them to do the throttle body strip and clean anyway, and getting them to check the ABS fault memory, dump valve and to see it if has a boost or vacuum leak? What order do I get them to do these things? Checks first then if all ok throttle body strip and clean?
Really hope it doesn't need a new one if you're saying they're not cheap - I'm sick of spending money on cars - I used to have a MK1 GTI which bled me dry!
Thanks again.
Edited by millicent on Sunday 21st March 22:59
If its not too bad, while the lights are out you could run with it for a bit and see how it goes, up to you really.
That said I'm sure it will benefit from having the throttle body cleaned, but as I said before often this is a temp fix and a new one is required eventually.
To check for a boost leak they just need to do a quick visuall inspection of all the pipes and hoses and have a good listen while reving it up. You might find they have done this already, depends how thourgher they are.
The dump valve is in a hose right near the throtle body, so they will virtually be touching it anyway, while taking the throttle body off, they could easily take an extra 5 mins just to put a vacuum pump on the dump valve, to make sure its working and visually inspect it for leaks.
Equally after cleaning the throttle body they will have to plug the car into the diag computer to do its basic setting, at this time they could check/recheck the ABS fault memory to rule that out as the cause of the Traction control light.
I know spending money on cars sucks, if it makes you feel better, even doing all the fitment myself (so no labour charges) and with trade discount on parts, I still had to pay nearly £300 to get mine through its MOT last week, So none of us are exempt to the cost of motoring.
That said I'm sure it will benefit from having the throttle body cleaned, but as I said before often this is a temp fix and a new one is required eventually.
To check for a boost leak they just need to do a quick visuall inspection of all the pipes and hoses and have a good listen while reving it up. You might find they have done this already, depends how thourgher they are.
The dump valve is in a hose right near the throtle body, so they will virtually be touching it anyway, while taking the throttle body off, they could easily take an extra 5 mins just to put a vacuum pump on the dump valve, to make sure its working and visually inspect it for leaks.
Equally after cleaning the throttle body they will have to plug the car into the diag computer to do its basic setting, at this time they could check/recheck the ABS fault memory to rule that out as the cause of the Traction control light.
I know spending money on cars sucks, if it makes you feel better, even doing all the fitment myself (so no labour charges) and with trade discount on parts, I still had to pay nearly £300 to get mine through its MOT last week, So none of us are exempt to the cost of motoring.
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