Stock market trading from home - waste of time?
Discussion
Chaps,
I'm a contractor. My current client notified me yesterday that my contract will end in a month's time. Which is a bit of a blow, but not totally unexpected, so I need to find another client. A pain,but not impossible.
However, I don't see contracting as being a means to an end. It is a short-term thing, which produces quite a lot of money quite quickly. I don't want to do it for the rest of my life (I'm mid-30's, and have been doing it for about 7 years), but I don't know what else to do.
We've saved a fair amount recently, and I have seen a number of adverts for organisations such as this recently:
http://www.knowledgetoaction.co.uk/training-progra...
From what I can tell then essentially they give you 'free' training, sell you some software and you trade on some market. (Stock market, I think, although there seem to be money market options as well.) I don't for a second believe that this is as simple or easy as they say, otherwise everyone would be doing it, but what are the catches? I expect that the software will end up costing a few hundred quid, which is a fair investment, and then you are into effectively gambling on the markets. Does anyone know any PH'ers who have tried this sort of thing? Does it work? Is it incredibly difficult? All a matter of luck? A seriously bad idea, or worth a try?
I have no experience of markets but do have a mathematical/IT background. If that makes any difference ...
Oli.
I'm a contractor. My current client notified me yesterday that my contract will end in a month's time. Which is a bit of a blow, but not totally unexpected, so I need to find another client. A pain,but not impossible.
However, I don't see contracting as being a means to an end. It is a short-term thing, which produces quite a lot of money quite quickly. I don't want to do it for the rest of my life (I'm mid-30's, and have been doing it for about 7 years), but I don't know what else to do.
We've saved a fair amount recently, and I have seen a number of adverts for organisations such as this recently:
http://www.knowledgetoaction.co.uk/training-progra...
From what I can tell then essentially they give you 'free' training, sell you some software and you trade on some market. (Stock market, I think, although there seem to be money market options as well.) I don't for a second believe that this is as simple or easy as they say, otherwise everyone would be doing it, but what are the catches? I expect that the software will end up costing a few hundred quid, which is a fair investment, and then you are into effectively gambling on the markets. Does anyone know any PH'ers who have tried this sort of thing? Does it work? Is it incredibly difficult? All a matter of luck? A seriously bad idea, or worth a try?
I have no experience of markets but do have a mathematical/IT background. If that makes any difference ...
Oli.
Human nature is to run losses and realise profits......
i.e. When people are losing money most people will let it run and not cut their losses...similarly people are much happier to realise profits as it's obviously a "nice" thing to do.
Good trading/investment is all about discipline "the first cut is the cheapest" is an expression often heard in the markets.
The reason most investment funds underperform the index is because of this. Unless you think you are ruthless enough to cut your losses and to do it early when you make a mistake don't start trading to try and earn a living. It's VERY hard work and VERY stressful.
i.e. When people are losing money most people will let it run and not cut their losses...similarly people are much happier to realise profits as it's obviously a "nice" thing to do.
Good trading/investment is all about discipline "the first cut is the cheapest" is an expression often heard in the markets.
The reason most investment funds underperform the index is because of this. Unless you think you are ruthless enough to cut your losses and to do it early when you make a mistake don't start trading to try and earn a living. It's VERY hard work and VERY stressful.
You have to ask a trading mentor/coach/signal service, if they're so good, why are they wasting time teaching people asking the same idiotic questions for what should be a miniscule amount of their trading income rather than sitting on a yacht in the Bahamas being massaged by two blonde bimbos. And if they "wanted to help people" why are they charging £2000 for a weekend course?
If you are to learn to trade, expect to not be profitable for 18 months minimum. If you are, expect to lose lots and lots (this may just be the initial deposit but if you think you're s
t hot, expect to lose your house, too). If you think you can do it in a month, what makes you so special? 
Here are a handful of links to get you started:
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trading-journals/7...
Yes, there are hours and hours of reading material there. Speak to you in 2013.
If you are to learn to trade, expect to not be profitable for 18 months minimum. If you are, expect to lose lots and lots (this may just be the initial deposit but if you think you're s
t hot, expect to lose your house, too). If you think you can do it in a month, what makes you so special? Here are a handful of links to get you started:
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trading-journals/7...
Yes, there are hours and hours of reading material there. Speak to you in 2013.
mattdaniels said:
Are you in IT?
If so, what's your professional, educated view on all these "teach non computer people to write software and work in computers and make loads of money really quickly and easily" courses that are advertised on telly and in the press?
See where I'm going here?
Brilliant. If so, what's your professional, educated view on all these "teach non computer people to write software and work in computers and make loads of money really quickly and easily" courses that are advertised on telly and in the press?
See where I'm going here?
I tried trading when I had some spare time. This followed on from a period of successful investing when I had made very substantial returns.
I quickly learned as above that there is a major difference in trading from investing, and that whilst one can make a number of small gains it is also very easy to make some bigger losses - of course these can be limited by stop losses, but can you be that disciplined and then having made a loss stay out of the market and not overtrade? In the end I decided to stay out, though enjoyed having tried.
After a lot of research and viewings of various properties I have just made an offer on a shop with 2 flats. This won't take over from my job immediately, but by buying carefully offers a gross yield of 8.5%, which based on commercial finance at (currently)3.5% and £100K of equity will give a useful return on equity. I hope to learn from this first one, accept that I may make some mistakes, and then increase my portfolio over time.
If you have cash this area might be worth a look.
There is never any easy money though; if there is the risk is just not worth it.
I quickly learned as above that there is a major difference in trading from investing, and that whilst one can make a number of small gains it is also very easy to make some bigger losses - of course these can be limited by stop losses, but can you be that disciplined and then having made a loss stay out of the market and not overtrade? In the end I decided to stay out, though enjoyed having tried.
After a lot of research and viewings of various properties I have just made an offer on a shop with 2 flats. This won't take over from my job immediately, but by buying carefully offers a gross yield of 8.5%, which based on commercial finance at (currently)3.5% and £100K of equity will give a useful return on equity. I hope to learn from this first one, accept that I may make some mistakes, and then increase my portfolio over time.
If you have cash this area might be worth a look.
There is never any easy money though; if there is the risk is just not worth it.
zcacogp said:
Chaps,
I'm a contractor. My current client notified me yesterday that my contract will end in a month's time. Which is a bit of a blow, but not totally unexpected, so I need to find another client. A pain,but not impossible.
However, I don't see contracting as being a means to an end. It is a short-term thing, which produces quite a lot of money quite quickly. I don't want to do it for the rest of my life (I'm mid-30's, and have been doing it for about 7 years), but I don't know what else to do.
We've saved a fair amount recently, and I have seen a number of adverts for organisations such as this recently:
http://www.knowledgetoaction.co.uk/training-progra...
From what I can tell then essentially they give you 'free' training, sell you some software and you trade on some market. (Stock market, I think, although there seem to be money market options as well.) I don't for a second believe that this is as simple or easy as they say, otherwise everyone would be doing it, but what are the catches? I expect that the software will end up costing a few hundred quid, which is a fair investment, and then you are into effectively gambling on the markets. Does anyone know any PH'ers who have tried this sort of thing? Does it work? Is it incredibly difficult? All a matter of luck? A seriously bad idea, or worth a try?
I have no experience of markets but do have a mathematical/IT background. If that makes any difference ...
Oli.
I wouldn't personally.I'm a contractor. My current client notified me yesterday that my contract will end in a month's time. Which is a bit of a blow, but not totally unexpected, so I need to find another client. A pain,but not impossible.
However, I don't see contracting as being a means to an end. It is a short-term thing, which produces quite a lot of money quite quickly. I don't want to do it for the rest of my life (I'm mid-30's, and have been doing it for about 7 years), but I don't know what else to do.
We've saved a fair amount recently, and I have seen a number of adverts for organisations such as this recently:
http://www.knowledgetoaction.co.uk/training-progra...
From what I can tell then essentially they give you 'free' training, sell you some software and you trade on some market. (Stock market, I think, although there seem to be money market options as well.) I don't for a second believe that this is as simple or easy as they say, otherwise everyone would be doing it, but what are the catches? I expect that the software will end up costing a few hundred quid, which is a fair investment, and then you are into effectively gambling on the markets. Does anyone know any PH'ers who have tried this sort of thing? Does it work? Is it incredibly difficult? All a matter of luck? A seriously bad idea, or worth a try?
I have no experience of markets but do have a mathematical/IT background. If that makes any difference ...
Oli.
Ecosse79 said:
Do you mind if I ask where you are getting 3.5% financing from? What are your arrangement/ exit fees like?
Rate was through Nat West, using a broker (ex Nat west so knew who to talk to) to negotiate a decent rate. No exit costs, entry fees are 1.75%, plus documentation and survey fees, and 1% to the broker. Not cheap to set up, but worthwhile long term. Chaps,
Thanks for your answers. It looks like it is, unanimously, not a good idea.
Ironically, within a couple of hours of me posting this thread I bumped into a old friend at a dinner party who was just getting into exactly this. She was quite keen and enthusiastic, but even then the figures she quoted didn't really enthuse me to try it.
Maybe one to miss, perhaps. Thanks for the advice.
Oli.
Thanks for your answers. It looks like it is, unanimously, not a good idea.
Ironically, within a couple of hours of me posting this thread I bumped into a old friend at a dinner party who was just getting into exactly this. She was quite keen and enthusiastic, but even then the figures she quoted didn't really enthuse me to try it.
Maybe one to miss, perhaps. Thanks for the advice.
Oli.
Biggles111 said:
After a lot of research and viewings of various properties I have just made an offer on a shop with 2 flats. This won't take over from my job immediately, but by buying carefully offers a gross yield of 8.5%, which based on commercial finance at (currently)3.5% and £100K of equity will give a useful return on equity. I hope to learn from this first one, accept that I may make some mistakes, and then increase my portfolio over time.
If you have cash this area might be worth a look.
An interesting idea ... although I'm not convinced there is that much future left in property; certainly not residential. That's not to say it's not a good idea, and I wish you well with it. We have some rental property as well and I'm not looking to sell in a hurry, but I suspect that once you look at the additional costs of buying (stamp duty, fees, cost of setting up finance etc) I think it would take some time to break even. I suspect there are some better investments out there. If you have cash this area might be worth a look.
Thanks for the suggestion none the less.
Oli.
zcacogp said:
Chaps,
Thanks for your answers. It looks like it is, unanimously, not a good idea.
Ironically, within a couple of hours of me posting this thread I bumped into a old friend at a dinner party who was just getting into exactly this. She was quite keen and enthusiastic, but even then the figures she quoted didn't really enthuse me to try it.
Maybe one to miss, perhaps. Thanks for the advice.
Oli.
Might be worthwhile telling her to google the trainer's name and add "scam" to the end of the google search. eg google for "shadowninja trading scam" and see what results you get back.Thanks for your answers. It looks like it is, unanimously, not a good idea.
Ironically, within a couple of hours of me posting this thread I bumped into a old friend at a dinner party who was just getting into exactly this. She was quite keen and enthusiastic, but even then the figures she quoted didn't really enthuse me to try it.
Maybe one to miss, perhaps. Thanks for the advice.
Oli.
I have been studying it and developing an automated system for a few months (yes I trade it with real money through a spread better).
I read a few of the most highly rated books on the psychology of trading and risk, mostly before I had even looked at a chart and then moved onto technical reading material. Also have a friend that has taught me a lot about it and motivated me. Got some advice from shadowninja once too!
But with this approach there is no pressure on me to earn so I won't be pressured into making irrational decisions.
One thing that is true is that most people have ridiculous opinions on the subject. So I tend not to even mention it in public, except to people whom I know know their stuff. I don't even like reading the trading forums unless I'm looking for code help!
That's as much as I want to say as I'm far far from a professional and there are far better resources out there to learn from.
I read a few of the most highly rated books on the psychology of trading and risk, mostly before I had even looked at a chart and then moved onto technical reading material. Also have a friend that has taught me a lot about it and motivated me. Got some advice from shadowninja once too!
But with this approach there is no pressure on me to earn so I won't be pressured into making irrational decisions.
One thing that is true is that most people have ridiculous opinions on the subject. So I tend not to even mention it in public, except to people whom I know know their stuff. I don't even like reading the trading forums unless I'm looking for code help!
That's as much as I want to say as I'm far far from a professional and there are far better resources out there to learn from.
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