How cool was this
Discussion
Not sure how I got there but picked this up on youtube, remember watching it at the time..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch36-BQuSAo
How clean did the F1 cars used to look!
Wasn't tamburello an awesome corner back then
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch36-BQuSAo
How clean did the F1 cars used to look!
Wasn't tamburello an awesome corner back then
I think Erics just hit the nail on the head with regard to the main difference; the aero packages.
The just weren't as complicated and didn't disrupt the air as much behind the car meaning you could get right up someone chuff if you were skillful enough, just as Mansell did there.
The circuits don't help but they don't encourage the high speed stuff anymore because of the safety aspect.
The just weren't as complicated and didn't disrupt the air as much behind the car meaning you could get right up someone chuff if you were skillful enough, just as Mansell did there.
The circuits don't help but they don't encourage the high speed stuff anymore because of the safety aspect.
On one of the Bahrain threads I mentioned that immediately after the race, I popped an old VHS casette containing highlights from the 1990 season into the VCR just to see what the differences were with the 2010 version of F1.
It was immediately obvious that closeness of running and long, long straights was a major difference. Three of the races I watched were Spa, Paul Ricard and Hockenheim (old circuit - of course). All featured straights or extended curved sections of track well over 1 mile in length and all featured "nose under rear wing" type driving. At times, especially in head-on shots - and especially at Hockenheim - it was impossible to see the following car because it was tucked in so closely.
Other factors that are now non - existent and contributed to the uncertainty of the racing (which is what we really want - overtaking is only part of the uncertainty factor - were
the necessity to deal with sometimes unco-operative backmarkers
the necessity to make manual gear changes
the non-obligation to make ANY pit stops (some drivers stayed out for the entire race
the bumpiness of the road surface
Beacuse of cruder aero-packages the cars were WAY more of a handfull to cope with and the driver was an AWFUL lot busier in the cockpit.
The whole thing looked a lot more dynamic and spectaular - cars darting about, corrective action required virually all the time, close racing, sparks from undertrays etc etc.
There was no refueling in 1990 either so it was an interesting comparison.
It was immediately obvious that closeness of running and long, long straights was a major difference. Three of the races I watched were Spa, Paul Ricard and Hockenheim (old circuit - of course). All featured straights or extended curved sections of track well over 1 mile in length and all featured "nose under rear wing" type driving. At times, especially in head-on shots - and especially at Hockenheim - it was impossible to see the following car because it was tucked in so closely.
Other factors that are now non - existent and contributed to the uncertainty of the racing (which is what we really want - overtaking is only part of the uncertainty factor - were
the necessity to deal with sometimes unco-operative backmarkers
the necessity to make manual gear changes
the non-obligation to make ANY pit stops (some drivers stayed out for the entire race
the bumpiness of the road surface
Beacuse of cruder aero-packages the cars were WAY more of a handfull to cope with and the driver was an AWFUL lot busier in the cockpit.
The whole thing looked a lot more dynamic and spectaular - cars darting about, corrective action required virually all the time, close racing, sparks from undertrays etc etc.
There was no refueling in 1990 either so it was an interesting comparison.
Edited by Eric Mc on Tuesday 16th March 10:34
They didn't have such delicate underfloors and they didn't have the mandatory "plank" (which can be damaged with off road excursions).
They also didn't have turning vanes, barge boards, winglets are any of the more delicate aerodynamic devices that stated to appear from about 1992 onwards.
They also didn't have turning vanes, barge boards, winglets are any of the more delicate aerodynamic devices that stated to appear from about 1992 onwards.
What Eric said.
Eric Mc said:
Not enough flat out high speed sections on modern tracks.
Also, the cruder aero of that era allowed closer running and encouraged drivers, esepcially those with a low sense of their own mortality, to have a go.
I can't help thinking it shows that Berger had a low sense of other drivers' mortality.Also, the cruder aero of that era allowed closer running and encouraged drivers, esepcially those with a low sense of their own mortality, to have a go.
Derek Smith said:
Eric Mc said:
Not enough flat out high speed sections on modern tracks.
Also, the cruder aero of that era allowed closer running and encouraged drivers, esepcially those with a low sense of their own mortality, to have a go.
I can't help thinking it shows that Berger had a low sense of other drivers' mortality.Also, the cruder aero of that era allowed closer running and encouraged drivers, esepcially those with a low sense of their own mortality, to have a go.
Eric Mc said:
the non-obligation to make ANY pit stops (some drivers stayed out for the entire race
This is a key point. If the current tyres are lasting too well, then just scrap the compulsary use of both tyres. All of a sudden you'll have the unknown of who is going to stop and drivers will have the freedom to decide to push early on if they want to, knowing it'll mean they'll need to stop for tyres later but others may not.This is something that can be improved by the next race easily.
John D. said:
Derek Smith said:
Eric Mc said:
Not enough flat out high speed sections on modern tracks.
Also, the cruder aero of that era allowed closer running and encouraged drivers, esepcially those with a low sense of their own mortality, to have a go.
I can't help thinking it shows that Berger had a low sense of other drivers' mortality.Also, the cruder aero of that era allowed closer running and encouraged drivers, esepcially those with a low sense of their own mortality, to have a go.
from me as wellZeeTacoe said:
That is fantastic ! There was so much more action and overtaking back then ! I wonder how well todays drivers would do in that environment?Good to hear James Hunt doing the commentary with Murray.
I wonder how popular the old GPs would be if the beeb put showed them on alternate weekends to the live GPs. Not the half hour classics like on the red button, but the whole race, pretty much as though, say, 1985 was the current season.
I'd forgotten about that Mansell save. Thanks for posting!
I'd forgotten about that Mansell save. Thanks for posting!
toppstuff said:
ZeeTacoe said:
That is fantastic ! There was so much more action and overtaking back then ! I wonder how well todays drivers would do in that environment?In 1983 there were an average of 42 overtakes per race. The race average has been hovering around 13 since 1997 and hit an all-time low of 9 in 2009...
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