US / Israel

[ln1234]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/85686...

So why is the US getting so annoyed at them now? Has something else happened other than the settlement building announcement?

[Puggit]

The US are plotting a new course to make new friends. Unfortunately for them they are pissing off their long standing allies, while their new 'friends' across Central and South America are looking to ditch them too.

It's all very isolationist!

[968]

Puggit said:

The US are plotting a new course to make new friends. Unfortunately for them they are pissing off their long standing allies, while their new 'friends' across Central and South America are looking to ditch them too.

It's all very isolationist!

Either that or they are recognising that Israel continually disrupts any possibility of a peace process by building settlements on disputed territory. Until that actually stops, negotiations will suffer.

[5unny]

When it comes to the settlement issue, Barry O's administration is saying exactly the same as Dubya did. i.e. no new settlements on occupied land.

Today it's Hillary who is pretending to be seriously 'concerned' whilst a few years ago it was Condi Rice.

The US still continues to pay Israel billions in aid so I don't see why the media and others are so hell bent in claiming US-Israeli relations are taking a nosedive.

[ln1234]

5unny said:

When it comes to the settlement issue, Barry O's administration is saying exactly the same as Dubya did. i.e. no new settlements on occupied land.

Today it's Hillary who is pretending to be seriously 'concerned' whilst a few years ago it was Condi Rice.

The US still continues to pay Israel billions in aid so I don't see why the media and others are so hell bent in claiming US-Israeli relations are taking a nosedive.

Reason I posted this was because of the story that the US envoy had cancelled his trip

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/85695...

They do sound a tad annoyed

[5unny]

ln1234 said:

5unny said:

When it comes to the settlement issue, Barry O's administration is saying exactly the same as Dubya did. i.e. no new settlements on occupied land.

Today it's Hillary who is pretending to be seriously 'concerned' whilst a few years ago it was Condi Rice.

The US still continues to pay Israel billions in aid so I don't see why the media and others are so hell bent in claiming US-Israeli relations are taking a nosedive.

Reason I posted this was because of the story that the US envoy had cancelled his trip

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/85695...


They do sound a tad annoyed

Sorry I did not mean to suggest you personally were stirring things.

I just don't think Obama's stance on Israel is any different to that of previous Presidents. The public 'telling offs' are just a show for the US's allies in the Middle East. And Israel probably knows this too.

But yes, I suppose George Mitchell's posponed trip does give this a little more substance.

Edited by 5unny on Tuesday 16th March 14:54

[obob]

5unny said:

ln1234 said:

5unny said:

When it comes to the settlement issue, Barry O's administration is saying exactly the same as Dubya did. i.e. no new settlements on occupied land.

Today it's Hillary who is pretending to be seriously 'concerned' whilst a few years ago it was Condi Rice.

The US still continues to pay Israel billions in aid so I don't see why the media and others are so hell bent in claiming US-Israeli relations are taking a nosedive.

Reason I posted this was because of the story that the US envoy had cancelled his trip

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/85695...


They do sound a tad annoyed

Sorry I did not mean to suggest you personally were stirring things.

I just don't think Obama's stance on Israel is any different to that of previous Presidents. The public 'telling offs' are just a show for the US's allies in the Middle East. And Israel probably knows this too.

But yes, I suppose George Mitchell's posponed trip does give this a little more substance.

Edited by 5unny on Tuesday 16th March 14:54

Not really, its just a even more well publicised telling off after Israel embarrased the US in public. Will still be best buds in private though - the Israel lobby groups wouldn't allow anything else.

[SmoothRB]

968 said:

Puggit said:

The US are plotting a new course to make new friends. Unfortunately for them they are pissing off their long standing allies, while their new 'friends' across Central and South America are looking to ditch them too.

It's all very isolationist!

Either that or they are recognising that Israel continually disrupts any possibility of a peace process by building settlements on disputed territory. Until that actually stops, negotiations will suffer.

Hmm you mean some Israelis build settlements.

Hamas and Hezzbolah don't want peace, they want to destroy Israel. It's why the launch roackets and do suicide bombing and cross border raids. Unilateral action by Israel will not lead to peace.

[obob]

SmoothRB said:

968 said:

Puggit said:

The US are plotting a new course to make new friends. Unfortunately for them they are pissing off their long standing allies, while their new 'friends' across Central and South America are looking to ditch them too.

It's all very isolationist!

Either that or they are recognising that Israel continually disrupts any possibility of a peace process by building settlements on disputed territory. Until that actually stops, negotiations will suffer.

Hmm you mean some Israelis build settlements.

Hamas and Hezzbolah don't want peace, they want to destroy Israel. It's why the launch roackets and do suicide bombing and cross border raids. Unilateral action by Israel will not lead to peace.

I don't think Israelis want peace either thats why they continue expanding their borders, bloackading Gaza and don't allow any supplies in. Its just going to get worse as the Palestinians get more desperate.

[Mondeohdear]

SmoothRB said:

968 said:

Puggit said:

The US are plotting a new course to make new friends. Unfortunately for them they are pissing off their long standing allies, while their new 'friends' across Central and South America are looking to ditch them too.

It's all very isolationist!

Either that or they are recognising that Israel continually disrupts any possibility of a peace process by building settlements on disputed territory. Until that actually stops, negotiations will suffer.

Hmm you mean some Israelis build settlements.

Hamas and Hezzbolah don't want peace, they want to destroy Israel. It's why the launch roackets and do suicide bombing and cross border raids. Unilateral action by Israel will not lead to peace.

Israel want peace. They just want a peace where the West Bank is owned by them. And when was the last rocket attack from the West Bank?

[SmoothRB]

obob said:

SmoothRB said:

968 said:

Puggit said:

The US are plotting a new course to make new friends. Unfortunately for them they are pissing off their long standing allies, while their new 'friends' across Central and South America are looking to ditch them too.

It's all very isolationist!

Either that or they are recognising that Israel continually disrupts any possibility of a peace process by building settlements on disputed territory. Until that actually stops, negotiations will suffer.

Hmm you mean some Israelis build settlements.

Hamas and Hezzbolah don't want peace, they want to destroy Israel. It's why the launch roackets and do suicide bombing and cross border raids. Unilateral action by Israel will not lead to peace.

I don't think Israelis want peace either thats why they continue expanding their borders, bloackading Gaza and don't allow any supplies in. Its just going to get worse as the Palestinians get more desperate.

Gaza is a source of rockets and suicide bombings.

The settelemts are small fry. Israel hasn't expanded since 1967 really. It even rips down illegal settlements from time to time.

[SmoothRB]

Mondeohdear said:

SmoothRB said:

968 said:

Puggit said:

The US are plotting a new course to make new friends. Unfortunately for them they are pissing off their long standing allies, while their new 'friends' across Central and South America are looking to ditch them too.

It's all very isolationist!

Either that or they are recognising that Israel continually disrupts any possibility of a peace process by building settlements on disputed territory. Until that actually stops, negotiations will suffer.

Hmm you mean some Israelis build settlements.

Hamas and Hezzbolah don't want peace, they want to destroy Israel. It's why the launch roackets and do suicide bombing and cross border raids. Unilateral action by Israel will not lead to peace.

Israel want peace. They just want a peace where the West Bank is owned by them. And when was the last rocket attack from the West Bank?

How long ago would it need to be to be irrelevent?

The Muslim world still claimed a grievance from the Crusades and that was centuries ago.

[MX7]

I'm a bit confused by what you are saying.

968 said:

Either that or they are recognising that Israel continually disrupts any possibility of a peace process by building settlements on disputed territory.

You accept that the territories are 'disputed', but seem to imply that Israel shouldn't build on them. Should the Palestinians not be allowed to build on them too?

968 said:

Until that actually stops, negotiations will suffer.

I really don't think that a few buildings are going to make any real impact on the peace process. It's cited as a reason for further beligerance, but even if the stopped today, I feel that another excuse would be found in no time.

[Jimbeaux]

Puggit said:

The US are plotting a new course to make new friends. Unfortunately for them they are pissing off their long standing allies, while their new 'friends' across Central and South America are looking to ditch them too.

It's all very isolationist!

Our friends in Cenral America will stay our friends, especially with the aid they receive. Israel knows thie latest dust up is down to the lefties in charge. They will simply wait them out and cuddle up to the next more friendly administration.

[Jimbeaux]

968 said:

Puggit said:

The US are plotting a new course to make new friends. Unfortunately for them they are pissing off their long standing allies, while their new 'friends' across Central and South America are looking to ditch them too.

It's all very isolationist!

Either that or they are recognising that Israel continually disrupts any possibility of a peace process by building settlements on disputed territory. Until that actually stops, negotiations will suffer.

I think all sides do plenty to disrupt the peace process.

[Fittster]

Quite what the middle east has to do with the US is a bit of mystery.

[Jimbeaux]

MX7 said:

I'm a bit confused by what you are saying.

968 said:

Either that or they are recognising that Israel continually disrupts any possibility of a peace process by building settlements on disputed territory.

You accept that the territories are 'disputed', but seem to imply that Israel shouldn't build on them. Should the Palestinians not be allowed to build on them too?

968 said:

Until that actually stops, negotiations will suffer.

I really don't think that a few buildings are going to make any real impact on the peace process. It's cited as a reason for further beligerance, but even if the stopped today, I feel that another excuse would be found in no time.

Certainly another excuse would be found. The Palestinians aren't the ones causing trouble; others with agendas use them as a rallying cry and a base to ply their issues.

[968]

MX7 said:

I really don't think that a few buildings are going to make any real impact on the peace process. It's cited as a reason for further beligerance, but even if the stopped today, I feel that another excuse would be found in no time.

I don't, as it happens. If either side actually took the peace process seriously, there might be some movement. The Israelis are consolidating their power, the Palestinians get more and more desperate over time.

And it's not just a few buildings it's 1600 homes and an entire town in territory that is in great dispute, which means no side has a right to build on it until that dispute is resolved.

[rypt]

968 said:

And it's not just a few buildings it's 1600 homes and an entire town in territory that is in great dispute, which means no side has a right to build on it until that dispute is resolved.

Israel won the land fair and square, Palestine was not an independent country when that land was won, so there is no dispute "really"

[Halb]

rypt said:

968 said:

And it's not just a few buildings it's 1600 homes and an entire town in territory that is in great dispute, which means no side has a right to build on it until that dispute is resolved.

Israel won the land fair and square, Palestine was not an independent country when that land was won, so there is no dispute "really"

So if the Palestinians were to bomb and rocket their way into the land, they would have 'won it fair and square' as well?

Jimbeaux said:

Puggit said:

The US are plotting a new course to make new friends. Unfortunately for them they are pissing off their long standing allies, while their new 'friends' across Central and South America are looking to ditch them too.

It's all very isolationist!

Our friends in Cenral America will stay our friends, especially with the aid they receive. Israel knows thie latest dust up is down to the lefties in charge. They will simply wait them out and cuddle up to the next more friendly administration.

The current 'lefties' seemed to have backtracked some though Jim


From what I heard on the news the buildings are being built in Jerusalem? The place that the world says is an international city but the place that Israel says is Israeli territory, and so not the same as the occupied lands in Gaza and the West Bank?