Intermitent non starting problem
Discussion
Hi all I hope one of you has a suggestion for me. I have a chim 1996 I've had it 3 years and for the past 18 months have been trying to resolve a starting problem.
Sometimes it starts and sometimes it doesn't. The ignition switch has been changed and the starter motor 3 times and the relay switches as well. The start motor as also been heat shielded as well. Its also had a higher powered battery fitted as well.
Most times it will start in the mornings (but not always) I will drive somewhere then come back 30 mins to 8 hours later and the car won't start. When you disengage the immobilisor and turn the key there is nothing except the fuel pump powering up. The engin doen't even try to turn. But it will start if 'bump started' SO I have resorted to parking on hills and slopes to make the push start easier.
The TVR specialist I have been dealing with is stumped and can only think it might be a wiring problem, but before I go to the expense of a new wiring loom has anyone had similar problems or any suggestions for me to try please.
Over to you now thanks in advance
Mark
Sometimes it starts and sometimes it doesn't. The ignition switch has been changed and the starter motor 3 times and the relay switches as well. The start motor as also been heat shielded as well. Its also had a higher powered battery fitted as well.
Most times it will start in the mornings (but not always) I will drive somewhere then come back 30 mins to 8 hours later and the car won't start. When you disengage the immobilisor and turn the key there is nothing except the fuel pump powering up. The engin doen't even try to turn. But it will start if 'bump started' SO I have resorted to parking on hills and slopes to make the push start easier.
The TVR specialist I have been dealing with is stumped and can only think it might be a wiring problem, but before I go to the expense of a new wiring loom has anyone had similar problems or any suggestions for me to try please.
Over to you now thanks in advance
Mark
Mine has done this twice. Both times when I have either switched on and off repeatedly and in a short space of time. First time was embarking on the ferry to France, stop start through customs open doors open boot, switch off,etc. Bump started and all was well again. Last time was a door light switch needing adjustment - flashing interior light. Locked,unlocked, locked,etc. Bump start and fine again. I think the immobiliser gets 'confused' (Meta alarm). If it happens repeatedly, could you not bypass the immobiliser?
TonyWhat an absolute pain in the RRRR! Tell us more about what happens to dash lights and dials when the engine fails to turn over? I think I'd be looking for a flakey earth connection somewhere (that resolves with the vibration of a bump start) but I might be way off the target. Changing the starter motor 3 times seems a bit excessive!
Well all engine lights come on as you would expect there is just nothing from the engine not a sign of an attempt to start.
Well I didn't pay for 3 starter motors the they got returned and a new ones tried!!!!
With a dodgy earth would all the lights still come on and the fuel pump prime?
Well I didn't pay for 3 starter motors the they got returned and a new ones tried!!!!
With a dodgy earth would all the lights still come on and the fuel pump prime?
End of my tether said:
Well all engine lights come on as you would expect there is just nothing from the engine not a sign of an attempt to start.
Well I didn't pay for 3 starter motors the they got returned and a new ones tried!!!!
With a dodgy earth would all the lights still come on and the fuel pump prime?
Yes they would. I had the same problem, where all I could hear was click and then nothing, but other times it would start just fine. I got a big thick piece of wire and connected it to the negative point on the battery and then bolted this onto the engine. That cured it.
You could do a quick test to see if it's the earth by getting the black cable in a set of jump leads, connecting one end to the negative terminal of the battery and the other to a good earth, like the plenum chamber or chassis underneath, then try and start it.
>> Edited by schueymcfee on Wednesday 18th February 17:00
End of my tether said:
Thanks for that but I'm not very technical whats the plenum chamber? And would any part of the chassis do?
You say you had the same with yours and you use to here a click of the engine. I don't get that. Did yours also do it without any logic to it? and not all the time?
I think it depends on how good or bad the earth is as to why mine clicked and yours may not, that's why the dash lights light up, because that doesn't take much power whereas to turn the engine over takes a huge amount of power and if there's a bad earth it will just give up. Yes, there was no pattern to when it would happen. Sometimes it would start fine when I was fixing it, leading me to believe I had fixed it, then a few days later it would refuse to start again.
The plenum chamber is the big metal box that sits on top of your engine covering the middle of it. It will have the size of your engine in numbers at the front, i.e. 400,450,500. Just attatch a wire(very thick) to that or the chassis/gearbox underneath. Only a quick/temporary job so you can see if the car starts or not, if it doesn't, move the wire to a different location, if it does start then re-start it a few times and then maybe look at making the wire a permanent fixture.
Getting a good earth on these cars is very difficult because they're made of fibreglass so don't attatch the wire to the body or doors as it won't work.
>> Edited by schueymcfee on Wednesday 18th February 17:17
What relays were changed? there are none on the starter circuit ! There should be and i have done my car as the solenoid will take 12amps given a good supply, but because of the wiring it was only taking 6 ! The "new relay" should be inserted at the last point in order to minimalise voltage drop, your dealer will know where that is, better not say on here !
Morning People, thanks for all you suggestions yesterday. It started fine this morning, but I had to make a londer journey to work. When I arrived and switched off I thought I would try to immediately try and start the car again. But as you guessed it wouldn't start. So I tried the suggestion of running an earth from the battery to the plenum chamber, unfortunately that did not work. Looks like it is another bumb start this evening!!! I will ask my dealer about the relays that were changed and see if I have already got the ones spoken about on here, if no then That will be next on the list of things to try!!!
If anyone else has any suggestion they would be greatfully received. I will once I have it fixed of course let you all know, just incase it happens to one of you, but don't go holding your breath as it has been 18 months up till now!!!!
Thanks again
If anyone else has any suggestion they would be greatfully received. I will once I have it fixed of course let you all know, just incase it happens to one of you, but don't go holding your breath as it has been 18 months up till now!!!!
Thanks again
Sounds like your having a real nightmare!!
One thing to bare in mind is if you do resort to a rewire, and its just the starting circuit thats causing the problem, any auto-electrition worth his salt should be able to rewire this circuit only.
Theres no point rewiring the whole car just for one circuit. And the starting circuit is a very simple and straight forward one.
But this problem sounds like an earth braking down, probably the one to the starter relay.
One thing to bare in mind is if you do resort to a rewire, and its just the starting circuit thats causing the problem, any auto-electrition worth his salt should be able to rewire this circuit only.
Theres no point rewiring the whole car just for one circuit. And the starting circuit is a very simple and straight forward one.
But this problem sounds like an earth braking down, probably the one to the starter relay.
Did you try lots of different locations?
Try bolting it to the actual engine block. There is a bolt that holds a hook on that allows you to lift the engine out, mine's bolted on there, or try the chassis. You might need somebody to hold it in place/start the car while you're holding it.
Try bolting it to the actual engine block. There is a bolt that holds a hook on that allows you to lift the engine out, mine's bolted on there, or try the chassis. You might need somebody to hold it in place/start the car while you're holding it.
I know you had the battery replaced but have you tested it recently - it may be flat and/or failing to hold charge - leading to the possible conclusion that your alternator is not charging properly or that the battery is possibly faulty?
All your remarks are classic flat battery problems (or poor earthing, which you now seem to have eliminated) The failure to start could simply be a symptom to a totally different problem.
All your remarks are classic flat battery problems (or poor earthing, which you now seem to have eliminated) The failure to start could simply be a symptom to a totally different problem.
One thing to point as as you say you are not technical.
The earth needs to run to/from BARE metal. If it's painted it won't do.
Do the lights dim slightly when you try to start it?
I'd also get a good auto electrician to go over the starter circuit (assuming everything else electrical is working) before going for a new loom.
It may well be worth getting a garage to fit a proper earth strap from motor to chassis anyway. It shouldn't cost the earth
,it won't do any harm & it will either fix the problem or rule out a possible cause.
Best of luck
The earth needs to run to/from BARE metal. If it's painted it won't do.
Do the lights dim slightly when you try to start it?
I'd also get a good auto electrician to go over the starter circuit (assuming everything else electrical is working) before going for a new loom.
It may well be worth getting a garage to fit a proper earth strap from motor to chassis anyway. It shouldn't cost the earth
,it won't do any harm & it will either fix the problem or rule out a possible cause. Best of luck
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