Identifying an S3S
Discussion
Hi, I have found an S series TVR (in Australia) that I am interested in. I have checked the model differences on this site but it seems some series cars used parts from other series making it difficult to be sure if its a S2 or S3 or S3C etc. The seller says the car is a 1987 S. It has the spotlights in the front bumper section, a dash that looks like an S3, all leather interior including dash, airconditioning and a Ford 2.9L EFI engine. I am yet to physically see the car to check for things like the door length etc. From what I can tell it is a S3S. Is there any other obvious tell tale differences? thanks Spin.
If it has the S3 style dash it must be later than 1987 - that was the first year of S production so if they are mistaken and mean its an S model that started production in 1987 then technically they are correct.
If you can get the chassis number there's some info to determine age in the V8S/S4 and other information link at the top of the forum list.
If its at a keen price I wouldn't be too keen to point out to the seller its newer than they think - they might put the price up!
If you can get the chassis number there's some info to determine age in the V8S/S4 and other information link at the top of the forum list.
If its at a keen price I wouldn't be too keen to point out to the seller its newer than they think - they might put the price up!
If it was made in 1987 it's not an S3C (I assume that's what you mean - don't know what an S3S is!). The S3C wasn't produced until 1989 I think.
First you need to separate S3 and onwards, from S2 and earlier. The bonnet / spotlights etc isn't necessarily reliable - you could fit a later bonnet to an earlier car.
Mos reliable difference is that the S3 and later had longer doors. The pic below from Pies' web site at www.tvrseries.com shows the difference:
Hard to tell difference between S3 and S3c, especially if the latter has been de-catted. The exhaust manifolds and downpipes are very different. The cats were originally in front of the engine, so if the engine has two vertical sections about 13" long bolted between the manifold and the rest of the exhausts, it's an S3C.
Also, the S3 used traditional air flow meters (big square boxes in the air inlet tubes just behind the air filter). the S3C didn't - it would have lambda sensors in the exhaust instead (two large sensors sticking upwards from the downward bend at the front of each manifold.
So in summary:
Small doors and 2.9 engine = S2
Big doors, 2.9 engine, drum rear brakes and air flow meters = S3
Big doors, 2.9 engine, drum rear brakes and lambda sensors = S3C
Big doors, 2.9 engine and disk rear brakes = S4 (or a modified S3!)
There are other subtle difference but I would suggest that these are the most reliable ways of telling the difference, as those items above are unlikely to be modified without an engine swap.
First you need to separate S3 and onwards, from S2 and earlier. The bonnet / spotlights etc isn't necessarily reliable - you could fit a later bonnet to an earlier car.
Mos reliable difference is that the S3 and later had longer doors. The pic below from Pies' web site at www.tvrseries.com shows the difference:
Hard to tell difference between S3 and S3c, especially if the latter has been de-catted. The exhaust manifolds and downpipes are very different. The cats were originally in front of the engine, so if the engine has two vertical sections about 13" long bolted between the manifold and the rest of the exhausts, it's an S3C.
Also, the S3 used traditional air flow meters (big square boxes in the air inlet tubes just behind the air filter). the S3C didn't - it would have lambda sensors in the exhaust instead (two large sensors sticking upwards from the downward bend at the front of each manifold.
So in summary:
Small doors and 2.9 engine = S2
Big doors, 2.9 engine, drum rear brakes and air flow meters = S3
Big doors, 2.9 engine, drum rear brakes and lambda sensors = S3C
Big doors, 2.9 engine and disk rear brakes = S4 (or a modified S3!)
There are other subtle difference but I would suggest that these are the most reliable ways of telling the difference, as those items above are unlikely to be modified without an engine swap.
Thanks very much for that. I wont be able to see the car for a few weeks as he works remotely and has just left again to go back. From what you have all told me, I will be able to work it out. Just one other question, did they come with airconditioning or would that be an after market addition? thanks Spin
No air flow meters, and I think I can see a connector that goes to the left hand lambda sensor. I think that is what we know as an S3C, but which was sold in some export markets as an S3 Clubsport or Supersport.
I've only seen aircon on one other, and that was the one in Japan that was in the club magazine last month. As others have said, it was a factory option, but very few people in this country bothered.
I've only seen aircon on one other, and that was the one in Japan that was in the club magazine last month. As others have said, it was a factory option, but very few people in this country bothered.
Thats an S3c and it has aircon I can see the compressor on the far side.
Its not an S4c as I can just see the nearside wishbone enough - the S4c doesn't have curved tubes on the wishbones they are straight the same as the V8S.
It also doesn't have airflow meters so is a cat model.
If the rest of it is as smart as that engine bay I'd snap it up!
Its not an S4c as I can just see the nearside wishbone enough - the S4c doesn't have curved tubes on the wishbones they are straight the same as the V8S.
It also doesn't have airflow meters so is a cat model.
If the rest of it is as smart as that engine bay I'd snap it up!
Edited by Barkychoc on Thursday 18th March 07:42
Thanks guys. Ok so it looks like it might be an S3C what does that put the year at? I will research S3C further now.
Yes the entire car appears from photos to be in immaculate condition inside and out. This was also an ex Japan car brought to Oz about two years ago. It is very low mileage and has hardly had any use - hence the condition.
How much was the one in the club magazine last month that was in Japan you referred to selling for?
In photos of the underside it appears the chassis is in excellent condition all in original red paint, however, I will need to have it thoroughly checked when I can.
There is always a catch to these things. TVR's in Australia sell for very very high prices. I am not sure why but the TVR s series sell for around $25K-$30K!! Chimaeras can sell for around $40K-$50K! Thats why I thought about importing one. I have worked out if I got a UK S series one for say 4500 to 5000 pound I could get it landed in Oz all up for just under $20K. but would it be as good condition??
This is what happens when you are a petrol head!
Yes the entire car appears from photos to be in immaculate condition inside and out. This was also an ex Japan car brought to Oz about two years ago. It is very low mileage and has hardly had any use - hence the condition.
How much was the one in the club magazine last month that was in Japan you referred to selling for?
In photos of the underside it appears the chassis is in excellent condition all in original red paint, however, I will need to have it thoroughly checked when I can.
There is always a catch to these things. TVR's in Australia sell for very very high prices. I am not sure why but the TVR s series sell for around $25K-$30K!! Chimaeras can sell for around $40K-$50K! Thats why I thought about importing one. I have worked out if I got a UK S series one for say 4500 to 5000 pound I could get it landed in Oz all up for just under $20K. but would it be as good condition??
This is what happens when you are a petrol head!
Spin, the Japan car wasn't for sale, it was just an article about a TVR S Series owned by a bloke in Japan. It had the same aircon arrangement.
S3C was introduced mid-1989, so it must be later than that.
Unless, of course, they built cat models for export, earlier than for the UK market... this is TVR, they could have done anything!
S3C was introduced mid-1989, so it must be later than that.
Unless, of course, they built cat models for export, earlier than for the UK market... this is TVR, they could have done anything!
phillpot said:
if I've done my sums right thats about £15 - £18000 for an S !
A £4 - £5000 car from UK should be very good condition, chassis all refurbed, very tidy trim etc. etc. so guess price wise its a pretty close call ?
Im thinking of starting an export business selling TVR"S in Australia. A £4 - £5000 car from UK should be very good condition, chassis all refurbed, very tidy trim etc. etc. so guess price wise its a pretty close call ?
Gerald-TVR said:
tvrgit said:
S3C was introduced mid-1989, so it must be later than that.
Wasnt that the date the S1 was introduced?The S3 was introduced mid-1989 - the S3C sold alongside the S3, mine is G-reg 1990. S4 brought out in 1992.
tvrgit said:
Gerald-TVR said:
tvrgit said:
S3C was introduced mid-1989, so it must be later than that.
Wasnt that the date the S1 was introduced?The S3 was introduced mid-1989 - the S3C sold alongside the S3, mine is G-reg 1990. S4 brought out in 1992.
My S2 is dated 1990 ( January) . I believe manufactured Nov 89
Tim
Elfit said:
tvrgit said:
Gerald-TVR said:
tvrgit said:
S3C was introduced mid-1989, so it must be later than that.
Wasnt that the date the S1 was introduced?The S3 was introduced mid-1989 - the S3C sold alongside the S3, mine is G-reg 1990. S4 brought out in 1992.
My S2 is dated 1990 ( January) . I believe manufactured Nov 89
Tim
Hi Spin.
As the guys are suggesting, its probably newer than '89....try getting the VIN from the seller, that contains the year and month of factory build.
The $25-$30k prices you are seeing are similar to NZ prices for an S.
The problem is the compliance and the costs associated with trying to convice the authorites that is safe. The only way we can get TVR's into NZ is via a SIV (special interest vehicle). By all accounts, your compliance is similar and $ wise could be near $5k per car after replacing brake parts, body mounting bolts, chassis rust removal and the various inspection costs.
If the car you are seeing is good and honest...and already Oz compliant....it may be easier and will certainly be quicker for you to snap it up.
As the guys are suggesting, its probably newer than '89....try getting the VIN from the seller, that contains the year and month of factory build.
The $25-$30k prices you are seeing are similar to NZ prices for an S.
The problem is the compliance and the costs associated with trying to convice the authorites that is safe. The only way we can get TVR's into NZ is via a SIV (special interest vehicle). By all accounts, your compliance is similar and $ wise could be near $5k per car after replacing brake parts, body mounting bolts, chassis rust removal and the various inspection costs.
If the car you are seeing is good and honest...and already Oz compliant....it may be easier and will certainly be quicker for you to snap it up.
tvrgit said:
Elfit said:
tvrgit said:
Gerald-TVR said:
tvrgit said:
S3C was introduced mid-1989, so it must be later than that.
Wasnt that the date the S1 was introduced?The S3 was introduced mid-1989 - the S3C sold alongside the S3, mine is G-reg 1990. S4 brought out in 1992.
My S2 is dated 1990 ( January) . I believe manufactured Nov 89
Tim
tvrgit said:
Gerald-TVR said:
tvrgit said:
S3C was introduced mid-1989, so it must be later than that.
Wasnt that the date the S1 was introduced?The S3 was introduced mid-1989 - the S3C sold alongside the S3, mine is G-reg 1990. S4 brought out in 1992.
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