Pub Landlords

[Mr Darcy]

OK so I am thinking of buying my local pub if I can get the brewery to meet and accept my resonable offer. However said pub is not that busy, it does a few hundered quid on a friday night in wet sales but during the rest of the week its pretty quite in there. It did have a restraunt attached but that was overpriced with rather st service so it didn't do that well. Is it a viable option if I can ditch the restraunt part and just do real cheap pub food or am I wasting my time. Also, if anyone has any advice on how to run a pub then please feel free to stick as much information on here as possible.

[Eric Mc]

Have you seen any trading figures for the busines?

[Mr Darcy]

None as of yet.

[JustinP1]

Ahh.

As ever though, the crafty accountant's insight is most informed.

[Eric Mc]

Mr Darcy said:

None as of yet.

Minimal due diligence would be to have sight of full and approved copies of the most recent three year trading figures.

[escargot]

I think you'd have to question first of all why the pub only takes a few hundred quid on one of the busiest nights of the week.

[Mr Darcy]

Eric Mc said:

Mr Darcy said:

None as of yet.

Minimal due diligence would be to have sight of full and approved copies of the most recent three year trading figures.

Full aware but the brewery will not release the books unless I was looking at buying the lease which I don't want, I want the lot with them out of the picture completly.

[Mr Darcy]

escargot said:

I think you'd have to question first of all why the pub only takes a few hundred quid on one of the busiest nights of the week.

No one liked the new X landlord. In the first week he managed to ps off most of the locals. Food was pretty decent enough but well overpriced coupled with a st service (he employed 15/16yr olds as waiters/ess) then its obviously not going to work.

[Eric Mc]

Mr Darcy said:

Eric Mc said:

Mr Darcy said:

None as of yet.

Minimal due diligence would be to have sight of full and approved copies of the most recent three year trading figures.

Full aware but the brewery will not release the books unless I was looking at buying the lease which I don't want, I want the lot with them out of the picture completly.

Does not the landlord produce a set of sole trader or partnership accounts?

Are they not his to do what he wants - like show to potential customers of his business?

Edited by Eric Mc on Thursday 18th March 14:10

[Mr Darcy]

Eric Mc said:

Mr Darcy said:

Eric Mc said:

Mr Darcy said:

None as of yet.

Minimal due diligence would be to have sight of full and approved copies of the most recent three year trading figures.

Full aware but the brewery will not release the books unless I was looking at buying the lease which I don't want, I want the lot with them out of the picture completly.

Does not the landlord produce a set of sole trader or partnership accounts?

Are they not his to do what he wants - like show to potential customers of his business?

Edited by Eric Mc on Thursday 18th March 14:10

Wasn't sure on that score. But thanks for that I wil lask the question.

[KingRichard]

bks to food. Get the drinkers in - Good variety of real ales and salty snacks. Get some good conversation going and some old boys who will hold court for hours on end.

If it's got a beer tie I wouldn't bother, personally.

I'm looking into opening a small jazz bar that specialises in real ale. Keeping the place rammed and people drinking is your only concern. You need to offer something other than £3.50 pints of fosters, john smiths and £10 brakes burgers.

Any kind of brewery tie will fk you over

ETA: Which I subsequently see that you've already worked out for yourself

Edited by KingRichard on Thursday 18th March 14:17

[Lancs Jag Boy]

I agree, if there's a beer tie, walk away.

I've often wondered how well a pub would do if it's USP was....

No kids
No food
No noisy gaming machines
Dogs welcome (they rarley are these days, a pub not far from my place called the Dog & Partridge won't allow dogs in. Their policy on Partridge entry was unclear)

Because I really struggle to find anywhere that is like that today. I can't stand kids in pubs and the smell of chips; when all I want is a quite pint when walking my dog.

Just good beer, good wine, real fires and good service (clean tables please!)

But I guess you've got to have a good catchment area. I recently went into a pub in South London (long way of out London, but still inside M25 ) not far from a mainline train station at about 6pm on a Monday, it was packed with drinkers. But my local (small town, small 70s estate pub) would be dead at that time, if even open. So, location, location, location...

[V8mate]

How can you make an offer - reasonable or otherwise - for a business which you know nothing about: current financial performance and the trade itself?

[Mr Darcy]

V8mate said:

How can you make an offer - reasonable or otherwise - for a business which you know nothing about: current financial performance and the trade itself?

I know the pub very well, I have seen it change hands a few times and the only people to make it work had the right idea of giving it to the local drinkers rather than shutting them in a corner of the pub while non locals eat there overly expensive food. When it was only a pub it was always busy even though the landlord at the time was a miserable bd.

Although if I am fully honest with myself I am proably going into this with my heart rather than my head.

[jenpot]

Lancs Jag Boy said:

I agree, if there's a beer tie, walk away.

I've often wondered how well a pub would do if it's USP was....

No kids
No food
No noisy gaming machines
Dogs welcome (they rarley are these days, a pub not far from my place called the Dog & Partridge won't allow dogs in. Their policy on Partridge entry was unclear)

Because I really struggle to find anywhere that is like that today. I can't stand kids in pubs and the smell of chips; when all I want is a quite pint when walking my dog.

Just good beer, good wine, real fires and good service (clean tables please!)

.

st, you've just quoted my business plan, albeit with food included. Long term plan is to open/buy somewhere, within next 10 years hopefully.

[RonJohnson]

Lancs Jag Boy said:

No kids
No food
No noisy gaming machines
Dogs welcome

Sounds just like my local, although they do have some really simple, cheap food at lunch times. They keep 6 to 7 good ales and a modest selection of largers. Not sure on the vino front. Its almost always full with drinkers with a healthy mix of locals and visitors. OP - If you could get a pub up and running like this, I think you've got a fair chance of making it work (dependent of course on the location). Good luck with it.

[JustinP1]

Mr Darcy said:

escargot said:

I think you'd have to question first of all why the pub only takes a few hundred quid on one of the busiest nights of the week.

No one liked the new X landlord. In the first week he managed to ps off most of the locals. Food was pretty decent enough but well overpriced coupled with a st service (he employed 15/16yr olds as waiters/ess) then its obviously not going to work.

That can happen.

A very good friend of mine who I went to schools with's family bought a country pub on the side of a canal in Gloucestershire. It was dying with a rubbish landlord and losing money.

They bought it for circa £400k. About 7 years later the place is rammed with a 80 seating restaurant and has won numerous CAMRA awards. It is now worth in the region of £1.5m.

[Mr Darcy]

RonJohnson said:

Lancs Jag Boy said:

No kids
No food
No noisy gaming machines
Dogs welcome

Sounds just like my local, although they do have some really simple, cheap food at lunch times. They keep 6 to 7 good ales and a modest selection of largers. Not sure on the vino front. Its almost always full with drinkers with a healthy mix of locals and visitors. OP - If you could get a pub up and running like this, I think you've got a fair chance of making it work (dependent of course on the location). Good luck with it.

This is exactly the kind of thing that it was and should be returned to. A good selction of fine ales, cheap food and a good base of customers.

[therealpigdog]

Which brewery is it? I have some horror stories in relation to a couple of them but can't/won't name and shame on a public forum I'm afraid.

Might be able to point you in the right direction as to a couple of things to look out for as one particular company has some pretty sneaky provisions in their standard documents that are easily missed.

[dcb]

Mr Darcy said:

This is exactly the kind of thing that it was and should be returned to. A good selection of fine ales, cheap food and a good base of customers.

+1

The number of pubs offering six, eight or more well kept
real ales is very few indeed.

A good brown beer pub is a goldmine in my view - attract
the relatively affluent over 40s and put some food on too
to get Madam in.

Either don't sell Eurobland lager, or price it to keep the
chavs and numbskulls out.

Pubs like the Evening Star or Basketmakers Arms in Brighton
or the Malt Shovel in Horsham or the Garland in Redhill are
good examples to copy.

Folks travel miles to visit a special pub like those.

I have sat in the Evening Star and talked to folks who
have trained it from both London and Southampton to be
there. Now that's a special pub.