Golf mk2 new starter motor woes...
Discussion
Hi chaps really need some help with this one as I know very little about electrickery... Car is Golf mk2 1991 1.8 8v PB digifant.
Some background: The golf died and failed to start in January. AA man arrived. Replaced terminal to starter motor, hit with hammer to no avail. New starter motor was required. Prior to this I measured 13.5V across the battery terminals so assumed the alternator was fine.
I then fitted new starter motor (an unbranded eBay variety). Wired as per original but would not work (spun constantly). So I switched the wires around. Car starts as it should. However...
Then problems. When the ignition is turned off the starter motor kicks up again and turns constantly. The only way to stop this is by disconnecting the +VE terminal.
I dabbled with the wires again and found out that by disconnecting the voltage regulator wire (small blue wire from alternator) there are no problems but obviously this is not a long term solution.
As I said before I know very little about electrics but I have been looking for breaks in the wire or anything unusual to now avail. To confound matters further the alternator now does not appear to be charging as it should but I am begining to suspect my voltmeter is knackered.
There was no sign of this problem prior to the new starter motor but everything is fine except when the ignition is turned off!
Help!
-Gareth
Some background: The golf died and failed to start in January. AA man arrived. Replaced terminal to starter motor, hit with hammer to no avail. New starter motor was required. Prior to this I measured 13.5V across the battery terminals so assumed the alternator was fine.
I then fitted new starter motor (an unbranded eBay variety). Wired as per original but would not work (spun constantly). So I switched the wires around. Car starts as it should. However...
Then problems. When the ignition is turned off the starter motor kicks up again and turns constantly. The only way to stop this is by disconnecting the +VE terminal.
I dabbled with the wires again and found out that by disconnecting the voltage regulator wire (small blue wire from alternator) there are no problems but obviously this is not a long term solution.
As I said before I know very little about electrics but I have been looking for breaks in the wire or anything unusual to now avail. To confound matters further the alternator now does not appear to be charging as it should but I am begining to suspect my voltmeter is knackered.
There was no sign of this problem prior to the new starter motor but everything is fine except when the ignition is turned off!
Help!
-Gareth
i dont think the alternator will be charging if you dont have the blue wire attached. Does the battery light on the dash always illuminate now?
You should have one trigger wire from the ignition switch (red/black) which goes on the terminal nearest the gearbox and a white/black wire that connects to the crossmember side terminal at front of bay. Then there is a power lead from the battery + and thats your basic wiring.
Your original problem with the new starter turning but not turning the engine sounds like you have forgotten/lost the brass bush that fits on the end of the starter rod which meshes with the flywheel otherwise the rod turns but not touching anything.
You should have one trigger wire from the ignition switch (red/black) which goes on the terminal nearest the gearbox and a white/black wire that connects to the crossmember side terminal at front of bay. Then there is a power lead from the battery + and thats your basic wiring.
Your original problem with the new starter turning but not turning the engine sounds like you have forgotten/lost the brass bush that fits on the end of the starter rod which meshes with the flywheel otherwise the rod turns but not touching anything.
Edited by aka_kerrly on Wednesday 24th March 15:52
After re-wiring and some fiddling with a multimeter he said starter motor.
It now seems there's more to it.
I've got a new earth strap and voltage regulator. I'll see if that helps. Really quite perplexed tbh..
Basically now have 2 problems;
1) Battery not charging.
2) Starter motor going mental when ignition off and alternator voltage regulator connected.
It now seems there's more to it.
I've got a new earth strap and voltage regulator. I'll see if that helps. Really quite perplexed tbh..
Basically now have 2 problems;
1) Battery not charging.
2) Starter motor going mental when ignition off and alternator voltage regulator connected.
Edited by G_T on Thursday 25th March 16:50
aka_kerrly said:
i dont think the alternator will be charging if you dont have the blue wire attached. Does the battery light on the dash always illuminate now?
You should have one trigger wire from the ignition switch (red/black) which goes on the terminal nearest the gearbox and a white/black wire that connects to the crossmember side terminal at front of bay. Then there is a power lead from the battery + and thats your basic wiring.
Your original problem with the new starter turning but not turning the engine sounds like you have forgotten/lost the brass bush that fits on the end of the starter rod which meshes with the flywheel otherwise the rod turns but not touching anything.
Alternator isn't charging without blue wire. Correct. However also not charging with attached. Took out the voltage regulator and it's worn well below limits. Have exchaneged for bosch component. Will fit Saturday.You should have one trigger wire from the ignition switch (red/black) which goes on the terminal nearest the gearbox and a white/black wire that connects to the crossmember side terminal at front of bay. Then there is a power lead from the battery + and thats your basic wiring.
Your original problem with the new starter turning but not turning the engine sounds like you have forgotten/lost the brass bush that fits on the end of the starter rod which meshes with the flywheel otherwise the rod turns but not touching anything.
Edited by aka_kerrly on Wednesday 24th March 15:52
The black/red only went to the terminal nearest the gearbox on the old starter now it works on the other side. I'm assuming the wiring is a little different on teh replacement starter.
In terms of replacing the starter. It works 100%. It engages fires and disengages. The only problem is for some reason only when you turn off the ignition it then decides to fire up again unless the little blue voltage regulator wire is disconnected. Now I am a layman but that strikes me as a wiring problem more than a starter problem.
ETA: sorry if I sound dismissive, any advice is appreciated thanks chaps! It's useful to have someone to bounce ideas off if nothing else!
Edited by G_T on Thursday 25th March 16:48
Ignoring the charging fault for a moment... There are 2 connectors on the starter, 1 big and 1 small. You should not be able to mix them up. The big one goes to the battery and has a 12v supply all the time, whether the ignition is on or off. The small wire goes to the ignition switch. When you turn the ign switch this small wire gets a 12v feed. This engages the solenoid (small cylinder) on the starter, when the solenoid moves it also makes a contact internally which makes the starter spin. If the starter cranks with the ign off this would suggest a faulty ign switch. However if you have somehow managed to mix up the 2 DIFFERENT SIZED wires the started would be constantly engaged & will overheat & fail very quickly.
Bertelli - that is pretty much what i was trying to get at.
there should be 3 terminals getting power
1) the one nearest the front of the car - black/white wire
2) the middle and largest is the constant 12v feed from the battery
3) is the black/red trigger wire from ignition switch.
The way i understand it is the ignition switch works is when you turn switch to position 2 you get 12v to all accessories/electrical components apart from starter circuit, then when you turn key to pos 3 the power supply goes purely to the starter circuit and once the starter is fired the key returns to pos 2 allowing accessories to work again.
Yours sounds like its providing power to the starter at all times as if the ignition switch is stuck in stage 3.
dave
there should be 3 terminals getting power
1) the one nearest the front of the car - black/white wire
2) the middle and largest is the constant 12v feed from the battery
3) is the black/red trigger wire from ignition switch.
The way i understand it is the ignition switch works is when you turn switch to position 2 you get 12v to all accessories/electrical components apart from starter circuit, then when you turn key to pos 3 the power supply goes purely to the starter circuit and once the starter is fired the key returns to pos 2 allowing accessories to work again.
Yours sounds like its providing power to the starter at all times as if the ignition switch is stuck in stage 3.
dave
Wiring is fine but the faulty ignition switch sounds a good idea. I'll dig out the haynes manual and inspect the ignition switch on Saturday.
I will admit I had earlier dismissed but, as you both have pointed out, it would seem the most logical next move.
Thanks very much for your input guys. I'll report back on Saturday.
I will admit I had earlier dismissed but, as you both have pointed out, it would seem the most logical next move.
Thanks very much for your input guys. I'll report back on Saturday.
Edited by G_T on Friday 26th March 13:43
what id suggest is seeing if you can get hold of a ignition switch then DONT remove your old one just unplug the multi plug from the back of it and put that into the new switch. You can use a screwdriver or similar to turn the switch to each position replicating what a key in the barrel does and see what happens.
reason is changing the ignition switch requires you to remove the steering column as the only way to undo the switch from the column is 1 tiny bolt that you cant get to with the coloumn assembled. Even if you take the column off at the UJ and undo the dash supporting brackets it can end up being a bit of nightmare.
dave
reason is changing the ignition switch requires you to remove the steering column as the only way to undo the switch from the column is 1 tiny bolt that you cant get to with the coloumn assembled. Even if you take the column off at the UJ and undo the dash supporting brackets it can end up being a bit of nightmare.
dave
ds.Gassing Station | Audi, Seat, Skoda & VW | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff