Hole in sump...

[S3Paulo]

Good news is that my S3 has passed its MOT....bad news is that a hole has worn in the sump.
Engine mounts have collapsed and caused the sump to rub on anti-roll bar wearing a hole.
I'd noticed some oil drips and put it down to a weeping oil seal behind the flywheel.
The engine mounts were replaced a year or so ago..supplied by TVR car parts..I'd thought this problem had gone away...I woz wrong.

Has anyone had this problem??? I had heard that Landrover engine mounts were the ones to use.

Anyways...this remains an engine/gearbox out jobby. I will renew the clutch and front/back oil seals whilst I'm about it.
Thought about welding a patch on the sump but I suspect this could set the engine on fire internally even with the oil drained.

Any thoughts appreciated...

Paul

[The Lukas]

Same thing happened to me just over a year ago, but I wasn't watching the oil gauge. I was unlucky enough to kill the bottom end.

I obviously had to take the engine out, bit by bit and gave the front end of the car a restoration. So I wouldn't know how to change the mounts without splitting the gearbox and supporting the block with a hoist. It was a pain in the neck, I wouldn't want to do it again, but have the piece of mind that it's all done, with uprated mounts.

[phillpot]

A. fibreglass it until you can get engine out

B. solder a patch on (not as much heat required as welding ?)

C. cut out the cross tube that stops sump coming down and weld back in afterwards.



Myself and I believe several others have bought engine mounts from www.rallydesign.co.uk search part no. RD410

[Barkychoc]

I wouldn't attempt a repair involving heat with the sump still on the engine - you'll introduce all sorts of nasty chemicals into your engine. If you can get at it with fibreglass or something then give it a go but not sure how long it will last with hot oil trying to make its way out behind it.
I think a replacement sump is the best answer.

[Griffinr]

If its only dripping a little its going to be a very small hole and should be easily fixable with a liquid metal type compound. Key is to get it clean and dry. I would go for "JB weld" as its readily available. Its a metalised epoxy type compound that is claimed to be good for repairing castings, stripped holes and all sorts of semi-structural metalwork. I've found it to quite good. Got mine from Wilkinsons. You could use it to bond a patch on.

Rob

ps. I guess you won't be going to the Black Boy today then.

[mep12345]

Barkychoc said:

I wouldn't attempt a repair involving heat with the sump still on the engine - you'll introduce all sorts of nasty chemicals into your engine. If you can get at it with fibreglass or something then give it a go but not sure how long it will last with hot oil trying to make its way out behind it.
I think a replacement sump is the best answer.

There is a fibre glass like substance made by plastic padding called "leak fix" I've used this on a couple of areas on my petrol tank (around the level sender where the seam was weeping and around the filler pipe where there were small pinholes) and it has worked on petrol as it claims. It also claims to work on oil. It is easy and quick to use and should give you a temporary repair in the meantime.

BTW my petrol tank was a temporary repair but after 30 months in place and still not leaking I don't see the need to disturb it. Check it every time the near side rear wheel is off though for confidence.

HTH

Mark

[heightswitch]

My old Rover has been driving round with a cracked ally sump for about 75000 miles now. use devcon plastic steel or plastic padding metal filler. drain the sump, Clean and prep the outer and use the two pack filer.

if the hole is on the sump pan then you should be able to quite easily drain the oil, weld a patch over the top and flush / carry out an oil change without any detriment to the engine. Just tack in very short bursts and if required use plastic steel over the top of the welded repair.

N.

[LeggitS3]

Hi Paul,

Ah, this was my first tvr repair on an S3 after 3 months into the fold. Depending on how pristine your chassis is and want to keep it, the TVR chaps that fixed mine cut out the cross member that's in the way and the exhaust, replaced the sump and welded a new cross member in. Saving me lots of hours.

I did a repair with liquid metal with a hope of taking it to them for the replacement sump and engine mounts. However I learnt that replacing the engine mounts needs to come first. I did a perfect repair on the sump on a ramp. Then as I lowered it to the ground, the crack along the sump flexed over the rollbar and was knocking nicely on the bottom of the crank engine off and rac job after that one!

[DJ8226]

I would drain the sump and try to fill it / patch it (Jb Weld Plastic padding or similar) until you have the time to take the engine out, maybe wait for theclutch to go then bite the bullet and get the lot done.

[DaveV8s]

If it is only a small hole maybe you could drill it out and tap it then fit a fastener, I have done that before with pipes in an emergency.

[ketvrin]

A previous owner must have had the same problem on my car and solved the problem (I hope) with a welded patch which you can see on this pic runs the full width of the sump



Hope that helps

K

[Griffinr]

ketvrin said:

A previous owner must have had the same problem on my car and solved the problem (I hope) with a welded patch which you can see on this pic runs the full width of the sump

K

Thats a lot of clearance in your photo, is that what were supposed to have?
I have 2-3mm at the most.
Rob.

[ketvrin]

You'll need way more than 2-3mm. The clearance I have (around 20mm) is due to new Rallydesign engine mounts. I expect they will "settle" a few mm soon but not too much...

K

[Ralph S3]

The engine/roll bar gap on mine is only a few mm. Is it possible to change the mounts without removing the engine completely. Can you just jack it up to get enough clearance? Or is it engine hoist time.

Ralph

[ketvrin]

Ralph S3 said:

The engine/roll bar gap on mine is only a few mm. Is it possible to change the mounts without removing the engine completely. Can you just jack it up to get enough clearance? Or is it engine hoist time.

Ralph

It is a struggle to say the least but is manageable with the engine still in situ.

you need to slacken the old mounts off - not an easy job and some have resorted to removing the engine bracket itself as an alternative. jack the engine up, remove the old mounts (easier said than done) and fit the new mounts in place (if using the rallydesign ones I would recommend you take a few mm off each stud to ease clearance before fitting) you also need to decide if you want to use selflocking nuts which require more spannerwork or a normal nut and lockwasher. drop the engine onto the mount which is at the bottom of the slots and tightened, then tighten the engine side of the mounts.

Or as a temporary measure, you could sweet-talk Ken (Clarenceboddiger) to send you some shims which require you to loosen one side of each mount, lift the engine, slot the shims in and drop and tighten. It depends on the condition of your existing mounts I suppose.

Its a mare of a job

K

ETA this link from the FAQ's - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... mountings

Edited by ketvrin on Monday 29th March 13:56

[Elfit]

I've recently changed the engine mountings on mine and as Kev says it's a pig of a job. Access is awkward at the best of times. I had the wishbones off which did make it a little easier. The drivers side was worst ~ I removed the bracket. I also cut an old spanner in half and ground down the shoulders so that it would fit in easier.
When putting the new ones in I found that I had to jack up the engine and force the mounts down as far as possible to get the engine to sit up high.


To repair the sump could you remove the cross member as LeggitS3 suggests? The engine on mine was replaced a few years ago (not in my ownership) and it looks to me like the cross member has been rewelded.

Cheers
Tim

[Ralph S3]

Hadn't thought of shims. Its only really down on the passenger side. I reckon a 5mm shim on top of that mount would keep it going for another season.

I'll have to send a very nice email.

Ralph

[phillpot]

its your choice but while the spanners are out personnally I'd bang a new mounting in and done with, yes they're a bit of a fiddle but once done its done. one less job to go back to another day

[ketvrin]

I agree it would be best to replace the mounts but if times pressing then the shim route is a great temporary fix (unless the mount is totally shot). You should be able to lift the engine and slip a couple of Ken's 3mm shims in under the top of the mounting (much easier access than the bottom end) in half an hour or so per side.

dont forget if you are raising the engine you will need to re-check and adjust if necessary the exhaust where the J pipes pass under the front chassis cross member... depends on how much clearance you have there...

K

[Griffinr]

Ralph S3 said:

Hadn't thought of shims. Its only really down on the passenger side. I reckon a 5mm shim on top of that mount would keep it going for another season.


Ralph

Shimmed mine on Sunday after seeing S3paulo post and finding mine very close. Used large form washers with a section cut out to drop around the stud. A flexihead ratchet spanner is a good tool to have to undo the nuts. I slackened the nuts till they were at the end of the studs, took the weight of the engine on the jack then levered the stud back through the engine bracket to compress the rubber enough for the shim to drop in. The whole operation took about half an hour. You need to be careful with the jack as the exhast is close to the chassis and you don't want to hang the car on it!!
Might change the mounts in the future, will see how it goes.
Rob.