Summer / Trackday Tyres...
Poll: Summer / Trackday Tyres...
Total Members Polled: 21
Discussion
As most of you know, I'm a fan of real 'cold weather tyres' for winter. So I've got Pirelli Sottozeros on my standard rims at the moment - I had them fitted to my new Exige on delivery, so I have a spare set of OEM A048R cut slicks sitting in my cellar.
I've saved up and am going to be buying a set of the 5-spoke 240R wheels I've lusted after for YEARS, for use in the summer and trackdays. I'll switch back to the standard wheels and my winter tyres in October.
However after numerous arse-clenching aquaplaning 'moments' in midsummer rainstorms at very low speeds (40 mph on the M1 coming back from Silverstone last year, three times), and an unexpected accident (that may actually have been due to a missing drain cover on the apex of the bend, but regardless it's knocked my confidence in cut slicks on the road), I'm suffering from a bit of the 'fear' about the A048Rs being a possible liability on the public road.
However, I drove my VXT on R888s all year round and never felt the 'fear'. The aquaplaning only happened with the Exige on A048Rs, and the accident can't be blamed entirely on tyres. Equally, I *do* want to enjoy a good few trackdays this year in my car and the cut slicks *do* perform well on track.
I've got an unused set of A048Rs that were supplied with the car (it'd have been a laugh if I'd actually tried to take delivery of the car with them fitted - I picked it up from Lipscomb's in December in a foot of snow) and it'd be a shame to waste them, though I suppose I could easily sell them as they're unused tyres.
The Toyo R1-R has piqued my interest since I would like to retain the super-sticky track-biased compound (not too worried about mileage, tyres are an unfortunate consumable and the only contact I have with the road, so buying grip-less long-life tyres isn't what I have in mind. Also any tyre on the Exige would last longer than the rears on my 'sensible family saloon', I'm used to regular tyre replacement
). But the R1-R appears to have a proper tread pattern and hence *much* less liable to aquaplaning, which is the only thing that worries me about the A048R. I'll be switching back to the winter tyres a lot earlier this year after last year's debacle, so won't be using them outside their usable temperature range.
Are the R1-Rs that good? Or given that I can't remember having an aquaplaning problem with the R888s on my VXT, is it merely the shape of the grooves in the A048R that make it more susceptible to aquaplaning than the R888? Or are they both as bad as each other, and I should really be considering a different tyre?
IIRC bogie recommends a different Yokohama tyre (that all the Lotus management cars were fitted with, spotted at Hethel, in a recent thread) but it's apparently both expensive and only lasts as long as the A048R. If it has similar grip performance on track, but no aquaplaning, then I'm not overly concerned about cost. If the R1-R has similar performance to this Yokohama (can someone remind me of the tyre code, I can't remember it) but it's a lot cheaper (as the R888 is to the A048R) then I'd really appreciate first-hand experiences (if any).
Also, it's an S2 Exige. Are the sticky-but-grooved-and-expensive Yokohamas, and the Toyo R1-Rs, available in the correct size? I'll be putting them on 240R 5-spoke wheels, but I'd prefer to retain the same width and aspect ratio to avoid yet another variable in the handling equation.
Or - last option - should I be considering a 'regular' road tyre that happens to perform really well on the Exige in summer and on track? I find the last option unlikely, but I've only got experience of Bridgestones, R888s, A048Rs and Sottozeros on the Elise / Exige / VX220 chassis and plenty of people have tried other types of tyre.
I'm not looking to save money, I'm looking for the best combination of safety and track performance. I like the track performance of the cut slicks, but have been scared by aquaplaning moments on the public road - so if I can get the same performance of an A048R but with much greater resistance to aquaplaning, then for me it's a no-brainer to sell the A048Rs and buy a set of treaded tyres.
In terms of 'same performance' - if I lose half a second a lap (of Brands Indy, say) due to lower absolute grip levels, then I don't care because I can get that back with increased confidence in my brakes (not related to tyres BTW but something I'm working on). But if it's 10 seconds slower or has sloppy sidewalls, or I get ABS activation all the time because of the AP 4-pots, then I may as well not bother (extreme case for effect, OK).
From previous threads, it sounds like the Yokohama whose name I've forgotten that's effectively the A048R with some more tread, and everyone complains is overpriced, is the tyre I need (unless the R1-R is the bomb). But is it available in S2 Exige OEM sizes (I don't want narrower fronts - at all), and are the tyres actually readily available? What I really *don't* want is a rare tyre that is often on back-order, so a puncture results in being off the road for months.
I know there have been lots of threads about tyres, but this one is for me to finally settle on a system. I'm already happy with the Sottozeros in winter, and now I just need a tyre I'm happy with in summer and track (can't have 3 sets, sadly), and then I'll shut up about tyres (unless I stick with the cut slicks, and then they become illegal by EU diktat, in which case the question is opened again...)
I've saved up and am going to be buying a set of the 5-spoke 240R wheels I've lusted after for YEARS, for use in the summer and trackdays. I'll switch back to the standard wheels and my winter tyres in October.
However after numerous arse-clenching aquaplaning 'moments' in midsummer rainstorms at very low speeds (40 mph on the M1 coming back from Silverstone last year, three times), and an unexpected accident (that may actually have been due to a missing drain cover on the apex of the bend, but regardless it's knocked my confidence in cut slicks on the road), I'm suffering from a bit of the 'fear' about the A048Rs being a possible liability on the public road.
However, I drove my VXT on R888s all year round and never felt the 'fear'. The aquaplaning only happened with the Exige on A048Rs, and the accident can't be blamed entirely on tyres. Equally, I *do* want to enjoy a good few trackdays this year in my car and the cut slicks *do* perform well on track.
I've got an unused set of A048Rs that were supplied with the car (it'd have been a laugh if I'd actually tried to take delivery of the car with them fitted - I picked it up from Lipscomb's in December in a foot of snow) and it'd be a shame to waste them, though I suppose I could easily sell them as they're unused tyres.
The Toyo R1-R has piqued my interest since I would like to retain the super-sticky track-biased compound (not too worried about mileage, tyres are an unfortunate consumable and the only contact I have with the road, so buying grip-less long-life tyres isn't what I have in mind. Also any tyre on the Exige would last longer than the rears on my 'sensible family saloon', I'm used to regular tyre replacement
). But the R1-R appears to have a proper tread pattern and hence *much* less liable to aquaplaning, which is the only thing that worries me about the A048R. I'll be switching back to the winter tyres a lot earlier this year after last year's debacle, so won't be using them outside their usable temperature range.Are the R1-Rs that good? Or given that I can't remember having an aquaplaning problem with the R888s on my VXT, is it merely the shape of the grooves in the A048R that make it more susceptible to aquaplaning than the R888? Or are they both as bad as each other, and I should really be considering a different tyre?
IIRC bogie recommends a different Yokohama tyre (that all the Lotus management cars were fitted with, spotted at Hethel, in a recent thread) but it's apparently both expensive and only lasts as long as the A048R. If it has similar grip performance on track, but no aquaplaning, then I'm not overly concerned about cost. If the R1-R has similar performance to this Yokohama (can someone remind me of the tyre code, I can't remember it) but it's a lot cheaper (as the R888 is to the A048R) then I'd really appreciate first-hand experiences (if any).
Also, it's an S2 Exige. Are the sticky-but-grooved-and-expensive Yokohamas, and the Toyo R1-Rs, available in the correct size? I'll be putting them on 240R 5-spoke wheels, but I'd prefer to retain the same width and aspect ratio to avoid yet another variable in the handling equation.
Or - last option - should I be considering a 'regular' road tyre that happens to perform really well on the Exige in summer and on track? I find the last option unlikely, but I've only got experience of Bridgestones, R888s, A048Rs and Sottozeros on the Elise / Exige / VX220 chassis and plenty of people have tried other types of tyre.
I'm not looking to save money, I'm looking for the best combination of safety and track performance. I like the track performance of the cut slicks, but have been scared by aquaplaning moments on the public road - so if I can get the same performance of an A048R but with much greater resistance to aquaplaning, then for me it's a no-brainer to sell the A048Rs and buy a set of treaded tyres.
In terms of 'same performance' - if I lose half a second a lap (of Brands Indy, say) due to lower absolute grip levels, then I don't care because I can get that back with increased confidence in my brakes (not related to tyres BTW but something I'm working on). But if it's 10 seconds slower or has sloppy sidewalls, or I get ABS activation all the time because of the AP 4-pots, then I may as well not bother (extreme case for effect, OK).
From previous threads, it sounds like the Yokohama whose name I've forgotten that's effectively the A048R with some more tread, and everyone complains is overpriced, is the tyre I need (unless the R1-R is the bomb). But is it available in S2 Exige OEM sizes (I don't want narrower fronts - at all), and are the tyres actually readily available? What I really *don't* want is a rare tyre that is often on back-order, so a puncture results in being off the road for months.
I know there have been lots of threads about tyres, but this one is for me to finally settle on a system. I'm already happy with the Sottozeros in winter, and now I just need a tyre I'm happy with in summer and track (can't have 3 sets, sadly), and then I'll shut up about tyres (unless I stick with the cut slicks, and then they become illegal by EU diktat, in which case the question is opened again...)
Yoko A039R are the all rounders ...but expensive and not really pure track tyres
If you do a lot of track days I would go R888 (due to cost less than A048)
If you just want some great road tyres for the odd trackday than the R1Rs seem like the ones to have, although cant speak from experience on them
I used to run A039s on winter wheels and R888 on summer, but with the choices out there now, if I had an Elise daily driver again, id probably go R1R in summer and real winter tyres for winter
R1Rs look like the kind of tyre what the A039 was ...but the A039 was only ever OE fitment on the S1 Exige, hence a low volume tyre in those sizes, hence expensive ...moreso that A048
If you do a lot of track days I would go R888 (due to cost less than A048)
If you just want some great road tyres for the odd trackday than the R1Rs seem like the ones to have, although cant speak from experience on them
I used to run A039s on winter wheels and R888 on summer, but with the choices out there now, if I had an Elise daily driver again, id probably go R1R in summer and real winter tyres for winter
R1Rs look like the kind of tyre what the A039 was ...but the A039 was only ever OE fitment on the S1 Exige, hence a low volume tyre in those sizes, hence expensive ...moreso that A048
I use A048's all year round and have never had a problem. I think this all down to personal preference and driving style. I'm not bothered about the cost as I didn't buy the exige as an investment as well as not wanting to compromise.
I understand your point of view Cyberface [almost a crusade to make us all change tyres], it's just not for me.
I understand your point of view Cyberface [almost a crusade to make us all change tyres], it's just not for me.
Just thought I ought to add that I found 888s to be perfectly useable on the road (indluding a 250 miles round trip to track in December in snow/rain conditions). Just don't ask miracles of them in poor conditions and they're fine.
I went for them over OA48s as the concensus seemed to be they are a little better in the wet. First time I used them in anger was in changeable conditons in a Sprint - They didn't spit me off the track!!
I went for them over OA48s as the concensus seemed to be they are a little better in the wet. First time I used them in anger was in changeable conditons in a Sprint - They didn't spit me off the track!!
TIPPER said:
It would be worth asking'Loafing Wafu' (on Seloc) what he thought of the R1-Rs in changeable conditions at Castle Combe yesterday - he was Sprinting on them.
In an S2 or Exige S1 (i.e. 195/50R16, 225/45R17) ??A thread on SELOC suggested that R1-Rs weren't available in OEM S2 Exige sizes - specifically the fronts. Can anyone point me at a supplier of these tyres (online would be useful, so I can see whether the right sizes are available)??
Thanks bogie re: the A039R - if they're rare then I may give them a miss.
The R1-R sounds like the one to go for, but only if they're available in the correct sizes. I suppose I could always bung the A048Rs on, trash them on a few Walshy days / trackdays, and then get the R1-Rs... if the R1-Rs are expensive though it may make sense to sell the A048Rs while they're worth something to put towards the Toyos.
Thanks for the comments chaps
cyberface said:
TIPPER said:
It would be worth asking'Loafing Wafu' (on Seloc) what he thought of the R1-Rs in changeable conditions at Castle Combe yesterday - he was Sprinting on them.
In an S2 or Exige S1 (i.e. 195/50R16, 225/45R17) ??A thread on SELOC suggested that R1-Rs weren't available in OEM S2 Exige sizes - specifically the fronts. Can anyone point me at a supplier of these tyres (online would be useful, so I can see whether the right sizes are available)??
Thanks bogie re: the A039R - if they're rare then I may give them a miss.
The R1-R sounds like the one to go for, but only if they're available in the correct sizes. I suppose I could always bung the A048Rs on, trash them on a few Walshy days / trackdays, and then get the R1-Rs... if the R1-Rs are expensive though it may make sense to sell the A048Rs while they're worth something to put towards the Toyos.
Thanks for the comments chaps
Are the Bridgestone Potenza RE11s available in the UK in Exige sizes?
They've just become available in S1 Elise sizes here in NZ and will be running them on my father's S1 Elise as a trial. They've been FANTASTIC on the GTi6 and am really impressed with them as a halfway house between an ultra high performance road tyre and a trackday semi-slick. It sits in the same niche as the R1-R I believe.
They cope with standing water awesomely and could be used all year round.... would make a good winter (Kiwi winter, not 6 foot of snow UK winter) tyre in conjunction with a 048/050/R888 summer tyre.
They've just become available in S1 Elise sizes here in NZ and will be running them on my father's S1 Elise as a trial. They've been FANTASTIC on the GTi6 and am really impressed with them as a halfway house between an ultra high performance road tyre and a trackday semi-slick. It sits in the same niche as the R1-R I believe.
They cope with standing water awesomely and could be used all year round.... would make a good winter (Kiwi winter, not 6 foot of snow UK winter) tyre in conjunction with a 048/050/R888 summer tyre.
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