POSSIBLE CAR SELLING SCAMS

[SIRWILKALOT]

AFTER LOOKING THROUGH THE CLASSIFIED SECTION AT A HONDA CIVIC TYPE R THAT CAME UP FOR SALE SAT 27TH MARCH AT ABOUT 6PM. THE CAR HAS ONLY 86,000 MILES AND FROM THE PICTURES LOOK IN MINT CONDITION AND WITH A PRICE OF £3600 I THOUGHT I WOULD ENQUIRE. WHEN I TRYED THE PHONE NUMBER IT WOULDNT RING SO I SENT A EMAIL AND GOT THE FOLLOWING REPLY
Hi,

The car is still available for sale,it is in perfect condition in and out,100% HPI clear with a certificate to confirm,full service history.
I just got married and moved with my Italian husband in Milan,Italy.I took the car with me so the car is currently here.
I can`t use it in Italy because it has the wheel on the right side and it would also cost me too much to register it here.
It is still registered in the UK and since I have absolutely no use for it I am looking for a fast sale( this is why the low asking price)
I can ship the car from here directly to your home address and I am also willing to cover all delivery expenses.
I look forward to your reply
Regards
Denise
SO I THOUGHT IT SOUNDED STRANGE BUT I SENT A EMAIL BACK ASKING ABOUT HOW SHE EXPECTED IT TO WORK WITH HER BEING OVER SEAS AND GOT THE FOLLOWING REPLY
Hi,

Because of the distance we need to complete the sale 100% safe and secure for both of us this is why it would be best use Pistonheads to ensure our transaction.
This is how its going to work:
I will contact Pistonheads and ensure our transaction from my account.When they have verified and approved our transaction they will send you an invoice regarding how to complete our sale in a safe way.
I used to work in the car sales business when I lived in the UK and I`ve used PH to complete distance sales all the time,it is very very easy to use and absolutely safe both for the buyer and the seller.
If you will accept the transaction than I can arrange the delivery to your home address.The delivery will take max 4 days.
The car will be delivered at your home address by truck,it will come with the V5 log book signed by me so you can easily transfer it on to your name,2 spare keys and service records.You will also have a 24hrs inspection of the car and the right to refuse the car if will find ANYTHING wrong with the car and documents.
If you agree with these terms and please let me know your full name,address and contact number(s) for the delivery so I can start the PH transaction and arrange the shipment.
I am sure you will simply love the car and there won`t be any problems with the sale.
I look forward to your reply
Regards
Denise
SO WITH THIS REPLY IT STARTED TO MAKE ME THINK SOMETHING WAS WRONG AND WITH READING THE THE ARTICLE ABOUT FRAUD ON THE PISTON HEADS WEBPAGE AND IT SOUNDED EXACTLY THE SAME AS WHAT THIS SELLER WAS TRYING TO GET ME TO DO SO ANYONE WHO CAN HELP WITH THIS BY GIVING INSIGHT THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS AND STOPPING THIS HAPPENING IN THE FUTURE

[MarsellusWallace]

Dodgier than a dodgy thing.

A common format for this type of scam

[Mr AJ]

Its a civic type r, plenty to choose from so if it sounds fishy don't bother.

Personally i wouldn't touch it, has scam written all over it. Since when has pistonheads ever sent anyone an invoice for a car advertised through the classifieds? PH is simply a media to advertise the car on they have nothing to do with the actual transaction.

[Garlick]

It's well worth reading the PH scam warnings within the classified section.

We keep it updated with the latest scam trends in an effort to protect our readers.

[skyslimit]

Seriously, there are 3 foot high pygmies in the Amazon jungle with bones through their noses who are wise to this scam. It's beyond ancient.

Who the hell is still falling for all these?

[Garlick]

skyslimit said:

Who the hell is still falling for all these?

You'd be surprised (as we are regularly). There are still people who believe these responses are genuine, sadly.

[mybrainhurts]

Mr AJ said:

if it sounds fishy

Fishier than cod..

[Stavall]

hi, strange that - very nearly fell for the same scam. i was looking for mazda rx8s it was for £3600 with 40-000 miles- and got an e-mail which said
Hi,
The car is still available for sale,it is in perfect condition in and out,100% HPI clear with a certificate to confirm,full service history.I just got married and moved with my Italian husband in Milan,Italy.I took the car with me so the car is currently here.I can`t use it in Italy because it has the wheel on the wright side and it would also cost me too much to register it here.It is still registered in the UK and since I have absolutely no use for it I am looking for a fast sale( this is why the low asking price)I can ship the car from here directly to your home address and I am also willing to cover all delivery expenses.
I look forward to your reply.
Regards

and then this one


Hi again,


I'm Natalie Baroni the seller of RX8.This is my personal email.([e-mail])is my email from work and I don't want to use anymore for my personal busyness

I can use a specialized car shipping company who will provide you a tracking number( to verify online the shipment status) and also a 24hrs inspection period and the right to decline the car is it does n`t satisfy your needs 100%.The delivery will take max 3 days.I`ve used this company when I have purchased my 2008 BMW X5 from Germany and I was very satisfied with their services.They acted very professional and at very affordable costs. The company works like a COD company,they will only require a proof from you that you have the cash available and you have a valid address before they will start the delivery.The car will be delivered at your home address by truck,it will come with all documents signed by me so you can easily transfer on to your name.all service records,V5 doc and log book will be present and carefully verified.If you agree on the terms and you are sure about the purchase please let me know your full name and address also your phone# for the delivery and I will inform you with all the details as soon as I have arranged the shipment.
I am sure you will simply love the car and there won`t be any problems with the sale.
I look forward to your reply.

Regards and have a easy evening


and finally this one



Hi Steven,


The delivery company name is:Ghw-Spedition.
I told you how the transaction will go,I`ll ship the car first ,i`ll pay all the shipping taxes and insurances and then i`ll email you the tracking number from the shipping company,also the shipping company will send you an invoice with the payment instructions. During the 24 hrs inspection period you can take the car to a garage or have it RAC inspected,I absolutely welcome any checks you want to perform on the car.You also have the right to decline the car if,for some reason,you won`t be absolutely satisfied with it.In this case the delivery team will collect the car from you and return it to me,absolutely no extra charges for you.
I am sure you will love the car and it will be a smooth sale.
So, if you want to go ahead with the transactions please reply me your details in order to start the delivery
-your full name and address( the address where the car will be shipped)
-your phone #( home and mobile)


Good night
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/imgs/9.gif
Natal

i think she was getting annoyed with all my questioning.
Anyway i now have a nice RX8 NOT PLEASE DONT FALL FOR IT

[amir_j]

I always report cars which are priced too low to be true eg £20k market value for £6k and no cat d or high mileage .

Edited by amir_j on Monday 12th April 19:40

[Stavall]

I did not part with any cash thankfully
This time no harm done

[KPR2030]

I too almost fell for the same scam. I’m not usually gullible but this scam was very well executed.

The story goes like this…….

Viewed an advert on Pistoneheads for a silver RX8 on 10/04/10. The car description read well and the photos implied the car was in good condition, 40K miles, £3,400, leather etc. I called the phone number the next day but it failed to connect, so I e-mailed instead seeing if the car was still available.

Natalie Martin-Baroni ([e-mail]) responded with the following:
Hi,
The car is still available for sale, it is in perfect condition in and out,100% HPI clear with a certificate to confirm, full service history. I just got married and moved with my Italian husband in Milan, Italy.I took the car with me so the car is currently here. I can`t use it in Italy because it has the wheel on the wright side and it would also cost me too much to register it here.It is still registered in the UK and since I have absolutely no use for it I am looking for a fast sale( this is why the low asking price)I can ship the car from here directly to your home address and I am also willing to cover all delivery expenses.
I look forward to your reply.
Regards

My initial reaction was this sounded a little dodgy but I’m fairly open minded so I thought I’d see where this goes. I emailed back with a couple of questions about the car and if she was open to offers.

This time Natani Baroni ([e-mail]) responded with the following.
Hi Keith,

I'm Natalie Baroni the seller of RX-8 231.This is my personal email.([e-mail])is my email from work and I don't want to use anymore for my personal busyness.

The car is in perfect working condition, the mileage is low and accurate ,there are no scratches and the car was never involved in an accident. Always kept in a warm garage, also it has no outstanding finance as I purchased it outright. Technical inspection and emissions testing is passed and stamped as well.
The car is 100% an UK car, not an import, in very good condition with only 2 owners on the log book.
You have a deal for 3000Gbp(my last price).

I can use a specialized car shipping company who will provide you a tracking number( to verify online the shipment status) and also a 24hrs inspection period and the right to decline the car is it does n`t satisfy your needs 100%.The delivery will take max 3 days. I`ve used this company when I have purchased my 2008 BMW X5 from Germany and I was very satisfied with their services. They acted very professional and at very affordable costs. The company works like a COD company, they will only require a proof from you that you have the cash available and you have a valid address before they will start the delivery. The car will be delivered at your home address by truck, it will come with all documents signed by me so you can easily transfer on to your name. all service records,V5 doc and log book will be present and carefully verified. If you agree on the terms and you are sure about the purchase please let me know your full name and address also your phone# for the delivery and I will inform you with all the details as soon as I have arranged the shipment.
I am sure you will simply love the car and there won`t be any problems with the sale.
I look forward to your reply.
Regards and have a easy Sunday
Natalie B.

All this began to sound far too good to be true but I thought as I’ve not lost anything so far. I’ll e-mailed back to say she had a deal.

Natalie responded with the following.

Hi Keith,

I just received your shipping details.
I will start the delivery on tomorrow after I will finish my work.
Also the delivery company team will contact you via phone and email about the payment and shipping process.
The car will be delivered directly at your home address and so you can test drive it or take it to a garage. All documents will be present. I consider the car sold now and I will tried mark the car as sold via Pistonheads. The car will come with the V5 logbook document signed by me so you can easily transfer it to your name, full service history and 2 keys.

P.S I will contact you tomorrow after I will set up the sale
Natalie

At this stage a couple of friends read the e-mail chain and we were all in agreement that whilst it did all sound too good to be true, Natalie seemed to imply the process was easy and the advert/photos online looked genuine.

Next I received the following e-mail from GHW Spedition ([e-mail])

Dear Customer,

We'll ship your car safely & economically!
Make An Informed Choice. Make the Right Choice,
Since 1996 GHW Spedition.T35.Ltd. has been the Europe's premiere provider of auto transport and freight services.GHW Spedition.T35.Ltd.s goal to provide value-priced, hassle-free car shipping services has helped to vault the company to one of the largest and most well respected auto transport providers in Europe. From multi-national corporations and dealerships to the everyday consumer,GHW Spedition.T35.Ltd.handles the movement of thousands of car transports on a yearly basis--while never comprising it's commitment to unmatched quality and seamless customer service.If you are looking for honesty, loyalty and friendly customer service, 2008 BBB "Winner of Distinction,"GHW Spedition.T35.Ltd...is the way to go. Our transport service & specialties include:
Auto Transport - Domestic & International Car Shipping
Corporate Fleet Relocations
Enclosed Auto Transport & Exotic Car Transport
Hot Shot Auto Transport Service
Inoperative Vehicle Transport & Motorcycle Shipping
GHW Spedition.T35.Ltd. is fully committed to the safety of your vehicle during any type of auto transport, we offer Door-to-Door service to ensure your precious cargo arrives safe and sound.Bellow are the details of your order:

Car Specification:

• *****************************************************

Model: MAZDA RX-8 231 PS SILVER
Year: 2003
Status: Inspected.Very good condition.
Total Price: GBP 3,000.00

Shipper/Seller:

• *****************************************************

Name: Natalie Baroni
Address: Strada Statale del Sempione Nr.33
City: Milan
PostalCode: 20017
Country: Italy

Ship to/Buyer:

• *****************************************************

Name: K Russell
Address: The XXX, XXX Drive
City/County : Weybridge-Surrey
Postal Code: KT13 XXX
Country: United Kingdom

Shipment Information:

• *****************************************************

Service: Door Arrival
Delivery Time: 3 days
Tracking Number: 5DD55945F2
You can verify online the status of your order at the "TRACKING" section of our website.
Description: 2003 MAZDA RX-8 231 PS SILVER
Full Declared Value: GBP 3,000.00.

IMPORTANT NOTE:

• *****************************************************

In order to proceed with the shipment it is mandatory for us to make sure that our new customers are:

1) Absolutely serious and decided about the purchase/shipment
2) Have the funds available and ready for the purchase
3) Customer`s name and address are real ( we had previous bad experiences when "serious buyers" have provided wrong names and addresses just for fun or for various reasons we don`t understand, we are sure this is not your case but we need to be 100% sure)

In order to 100% assure us of all the above all you have to do is arrange a Money Gram wire transfer to your partner, family member or to a close friend for the amount of GBP 1,500.00( 50% of the car`s price)..Money Gram Money Transfer is the only service that has ultimate authentication of the identity of the receiver of funds. Several IDs and utility bills are required before the funds are paid. Therefore, no one else but your receiver have access to the money. Your payments cannot be lost in the mail, like money orders or checks. In order for us to check the transfer you will have to direct it to Italy. The person designated as the receiver does not have to be in Italy because you can pick up the money yourself if you do not find the car suitable .We confirm that the transfer is made for security purposes, not for upfront payments .We ask you to perform the transfer directed to Italy because we have the headquarter based in Italy and this is the only way that we can check the availability of the transfer. After the car will be at your door you must pay the rest of the total amount(after you check and agree the car after the 24hrs inspection period expires).

After you will receive the car and test it for 24hrs,if you will decide to buy it, you will simply call Money Gram and change the receiver`s name from your partner`s to our agent`s name so he can collect the cash for the car, concluding the sale. This way you are absolutely covered and safe and we will have our guarantee in order to proceed with the delivery. If you will decide not to purchase the car, our delivery team will simply return the car to the seller, absolutely no extra charges for you. Because the fee to send a Money Gram Money Transfer is high, compared to other methods of payment, we have arranged with the seller to compensate the transfer fee(i.e. if it costs you GBP100 to send the payment, take GBP100 from the amount insured and send the balance).

TIP: if you will be asked why you are arranging the transfer just say it is for personal reasons,do not involve a car sale because for commercial transactions Money Gram will charge more and there is no need to pay even higher taxes.


If you have any further questions or need any help in completing the Money Gram proof,please do not hesitate to contact us,we are here for your support GHW Spedition.T35.Ltd
HQ ADDRESS: Via Domenico Scarlatti
Milan 20124 Italy
WEBSITE: www.Ghwspedition.t35.com
E-MAIL : [e-mail]
SHIPMENTS MANAGER: Domenico Pavoni
SALES MANAGER: Antonio De Lellis
LOGISTIC MANAGER: Mario Mariani
P.IVA IT01715330098
INTERNATIONAL PHONE NUMBER:[phone]
ITALIAN PHONE NUMBER: 3490200903

Whilst the website looks fairly basis, I logged on to the tracking facility and sure enough there were the details of the Mazda.

I then received a phone call from [phone] claiming to be the shipping company and confirming the above e-mail.

Natalie then e-mail again with the following message.

Hi Keith,

I have arranged the delivery through http://Ghwspedition.t35.com , the tracking number is 5DD55945F2. I have paid 550 euros for the shipment and insurance so everything is paid and in good order. I am absolutely sure it will be a very smooth sale, they`ve acted very professionally, the car was also inspected by their technical stuff to make sure it is exactly as described. I believe the company will contact us soon with the details. thanks in advance for keeping me posted.

Regards and enjoy driving the car

Natalie


All of the e-mails and phone calls mentioned above happened within 24 hours. At this point I search for car scams online. There were only a couple of messages on GHW Spedition but it did mention cloning genuine adverts and shipping companies.

I have not responded to the final e-mail or sent any money. I have not heard anything further from Natalie or GHW Spedition.

Like I said at the beginning, I’m not usually so gullible. However the responses to my e-mails were fast, the website and tracking facility through GHW Spedition added credibility and the solution on offer seemed relatively easy.

Obviously you should always see a car in the flesh and meet the seller but the main points which made me dubious were:

- The original landline phone number was dead.
- It was mentioned in a forum that scammers tend to say 3000 Gbp rather than £3,000.
- The 50% deposit upfront.
- Both the e-mails from Natalie and GHW Spedition had similar spelling mistakes like wright instead of right and the official e-mail address spells office with just one f.
- When I looked on Pistonheads again 24 hours later, the advert had disappeared, when usually the advert remains but says sold.
- The fact the final two e-mails and the call allegedly from GHW Spedition were all received within ten minutes of each other.

Like everyone within these forums says, it is sounds too good to be true, it probably is!!!

I hope this listing helps to stop others from falling prey to these type of fraudsters.

Keith

[SIRWILKALOT]

I think that you should email her again sayin that you are in or going to milan on a buisness trip and would like to see the car whilst you are over there an see what reply you get!!

[cheadle hulme]

Ask her for a picture - she sounds quite fit.

[Poledriver]

cheadle hulme said:

Ask her for a picture - she sounds quite fit.

Done that!

[anonymous-user]

KPR2030 said:

I too almost fell for the same scam. I’m not usually gullible but this scam was very well executed.


Keith

A company using a free website hosting tool, is most likely to always be a fraudster..

Also Keith/mods.. I would take your tracking number off this post as it bring up all you address details when you put it on their website thing..

A a first glance thou all these things do look legit but under the thin veneer of respectable the scam starts to shine thru.. Those stupid testimonials on the website..

Example :

Testimonials
"I was an internet fraud victim few years ago and I took the decision never to deal again on the Internet. But now, thanks to you guys I handle again all my deals from my laptop. "
Ricardo Sevilla - Spain

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 13th April 22:43

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 13th April 22:45

[rottie102]

I love the website of highly professional international company GSW Spedition T35 Ltd
www.Ghwspedition.t35.com

surprisingly hosted by....

http://www.t35.com/


I think I'm gonna send them an email, maybe they'll close the account and cause some inconvenience to the scammers.