Engineering quality, has it all gone wrong?
Discussion
Do you recognise the following quote, and who it was who made the comments on British engineering quality?
"There is nothing the British do not have. They have the geniuses and we have the nincompoops... I'm going to buy a British radio set - then at least I'll own something that has always worked."
Ironic this came from a German, Hermann Goering, I came across this the other day when reading about the Mosquito.
It makes me wonder where it all went wrong, if in fact it has gone wrong - the UK still produces highly regarded hi-fi, and the engineering expertise in F1 is world class. But how could we, in 70 years overseen this decline.
Very depressing.
"There is nothing the British do not have. They have the geniuses and we have the nincompoops... I'm going to buy a British radio set - then at least I'll own something that has always worked."
Ironic this came from a German, Hermann Goering, I came across this the other day when reading about the Mosquito.
It makes me wonder where it all went wrong, if in fact it has gone wrong - the UK still produces highly regarded hi-fi, and the engineering expertise in F1 is world class. But how could we, in 70 years overseen this decline.
Very depressing.
Mr Will said:
We can still do it (as can many other countries), the problem these days is that most people are only interested in "Design", "Features" and "Cheap". Quality comes a distant last.
Agree with both this and Bullett. Why pay >£400 for something when the Chinese can knock it out for ~£100-150?!? That the Chinese version will probably only last 1/4 of the time before needing to be repaired is of course completely irrelevant! 
That said, we lost our national reputation for quality in the 70s...for it to be picked-up by the Germans. Guess which is the only Euro country to have significant technical manufacturing left?!?
The UK has the 6th biggest manufacturing industry in the world. The reason that the average British public don't see the results is that they are obsessed with buying cheap crap made by people being paid 3rd-world wages (or even no wages at all), whilst at the same time expecting to be paid 1st-world wages themselves.
This might be true.... but the several large products I have purchased over the last few years from truly British companies have been less than perfect!
Take the Airsource Heatpump which was so badly galvanised it rusted within 6 months!
Or the £30,000 hand made sports car where they dont even bother to screw the ECU down...
Take the Airsource Heatpump which was so badly galvanised it rusted within 6 months!
Or the £30,000 hand made sports car where they dont even bother to screw the ECU down...
Dyson in a lecture a couple of years back made the importance of British manufacturing his theme. But he did make the distinction between manufacturing as in the design, i.e. engineering, and the assembly. The former he thought we should make sure we remain good at, the latter he wasn't concerned about.
Echoing what others above have said - people's attitude to quality has changed. Consumerism has meant you don't care if a product is built to last 10 years because you'll have changed it for a sexier model after a few.
Echoing what others above have said - people's attitude to quality has changed. Consumerism has meant you don't care if a product is built to last 10 years because you'll have changed it for a sexier model after a few.
Edited by FamilyGuy on Monday 29th March 13:21
havoc said:
Why pay >£400 for something when the Chinese can knock it out for ~£100-150?!? That the Chinese version will probably only last 1/4 of the time before needing to be repaired is of course completely irrelevant!
But look at it the other way. If I buy a £400 device now, and it lasts four years, I have a four year old device in four years' time. If I buy a £100 device, then next year I buy a new £100 device with more features and to the latest design. Then I do it again. And again. At the end I've spent the same money but enjoyed the latest design each year. For some devices that may be important (computers, cell phones etc.) For some it's not.
Also, there is a pretty good chance that the Chinese version will last 4 years anyway.
Bullett said:
We still do engineering but because it's high end it's expensive as we can't compete with mass market.
After WWII, Japan wasn't permitted to build weapons, so started building good, cheap, reliable consumer goods.American companies continued to build high-end weapons systems as part of the continuing cold war.
How many people buy weapons systems, and how many people buy hi-fis, cars, etc?
Bullett said:
We still do engineering but because it's high end it's expensive as we can't compete with mass market.
Most people aren't interested in quality they want flashing lights and Chrome (anyone want to buy a MINI?)
It's not so much the engineering part - when you start looking closely, we can do things no other nationality can - but the management where we failed.Most people aren't interested in quality they want flashing lights and Chrome (anyone want to buy a MINI?)
I have worked in places that inspired and truly recognised genius. I have also worked in places that didn't have a clue. What will mark out a great company is a passion from the top to do the best job in the particular market, and that runs through both the creation of the product (the engineering) and its delivery (the manufacture).
What happened, I'm not so clear on:
- Post War, we had the captive market, and the lack of funds, that led to penny pinching.
- We failed to spot the dangers of the German and Japanese approaches (a boring reliable product will win out over an exciting bag of nails).
- We fell in awe of the beancounters, and fell out of love with engineers.
- Somewhere in the 1960s, a combination of bolshy workers and weak management broke the pride of the manual worker in their job (remember when being a train driver or station manager was something to be proud of).
- The 1980s only accelerated this - family owned businesses fell to corporate takeovers as money became more abundant, and we became more obsessed by fashion than function.
Pothole said:
why is it still important for us to have a manufacturing industry?
Because we then become entirely dependent on other people for everything we need. The world is not politically stable enough to do this. No manufacturing industry also means that we have no jobs for engineers, which means that we have no one to design and build (or at the very least act as an intelligent customer) the infrastructure needed to support the country - transport, oil, gas, electricity, etc.
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