Anyone megasquirted a flapper wedge ?

[chunder]

G'day,

That's megasquirt as in http://www.diyautotune.com/ - not some act of perversion !

Long story but my 450SE now has a brand new 4.6 alloy block with reworked original heads. With the limited adjustment available from the AFM it can either be fuelled correctly for cruising or WOT but not both. Dyno runs fuelled for WOT are good with 250ATW and good combustion in either configuration but with super rich at partial load one way or very weak at full load the other, or lesser of each if adjusted mid way !

The cost of Motec or similar prohibits the preferred option, I am confident of making up a conversion plug to be able to wire a megasquirt into the existing Lucas ECU connector and would then just need a base start map.

Has anyone any experience of this conversion and which version of the megasquirt was used ?

Thanks

[daxtojeiro]

Hi,
I've done loads and loads of MegaSquirts for the Flapper, I even did some PnP stuff for them. Works well with MS1 or MS2, as you have an extra air valve and no idle stepper motor you dont really need an MS2, but its up to you. Theres loads of info, wiring diagrams for Flapper and Hotwire, etc, on my site for them, inc kits for the RV8 that inc wasted spark setups, etc,
Phil

[gsx600]

Sort of in the process of doing this on my 4.5 BV Flapper engine as my ecu is sha**ed !

Getting there, have the ecu and most of the bits, just ordered a pig tail wiring loom to connect to my spare loom
Have a crank sensor in place as hopefully it will run fuel and sparks for me but still need to source LM1 or similar for the lambda

It all works on the laptop

[chunder]

Thanks Phil, checked out the site and will be in touch soon - I reckon if you develop a PnP for the flapper ECU you'd have a few buyers from in here !

GSX, installed a LM1 a while ago just on a gauge so as I could fiddle with the fuelling as was never right, courtesy of too wild a cam from the previous rebuild.

Not sure whether it can be used to give a degree of closed loop control but I think I now know a man that knows !

Are you intending on rewiring the loom or adjusting the MS to suit the existing ECU multipin connector ?

[gsx600]

I have a spare wedge loom, that I have chopped the end off to connect to the DB37 connector and can then use most of the plugs like injectors etc, then add in wire for coils and vr sensor etc

Then once running I may try and fabricate my own loom from scratch

Edited by gsx600 on Wednesday 31st March 08:14

[daxtojeiro]

chunder said:

Thanks Phil, checked out the site and will be in touch soon - I reckon if you develop a PnP for the flapper ECU you'd have a few buyers from in here !

GSX, installed a LM1 a while ago just on a gauge so as I could fiddle with the fuelling as was never right, courtesy of too wild a cam from the previous rebuild.

Not sure whether it can be used to give a degree of closed loop control but I think I now know a man that knows !

Are you intending on rewiring the loom or adjusting the MS to suit the existing ECU multipin connector ?

If theres a call for them I can do it,
Phil

[B-Reight]

Hi Phil, i've been considering megasquirt and have read your site. I take it the only difference with a PnP setup is that you provide a conversion loom from the lucas ecu connector to the megasquirt connector?

Another question i haven't figured out is what is the +ve and -ve's between the EDIS8 and direct fire versions of the ecu are.

My main concern is not the installation of the hardware, it's the mapping and setup of the thing, i've downloaded a few of the software packages available and my mind was well and truely boggled, they didn't look user friendly at all (Not to mention there seems to be tens of different bits of software available, not all free).

Edited by B-Reight on Wednesday 31st March 21:47

[ed_crouch]

Just bought one of Phil's ecus. Thumbs up from me!

Get rid of the cacky Landrover fuelling curve and the cacky ignition system. Go MS2.

I had a look at Motec the other night for a laugh. Go MS2.

[chunder]

daxtojeiro said:

chunder said:

Thanks Phil, checked out the site and will be in touch soon - I reckon if you develop a PnP for the flapper ECU you'd have a few buyers from in here !

GSX, installed a LM1 a while ago just on a gauge so as I could fiddle with the fuelling as was never right, courtesy of too wild a cam from the previous rebuild.

Not sure whether it can be used to give a degree of closed loop control but I think I now know a man that knows !

Are you intending on rewiring the loom or adjusting the MS to suit the existing ECU multipin connector ?

If theres a call for them I can do it,
Phil

Sounds like a subject for a new thread, please allow me at some point over Easter

[daxtojeiro]

B-Reight said:

Hi Phil, i've been considering megasquirt and have read your site. I take it the only difference with a PnP setup is that you provide a conversion loom from the lucas ecu connector to the megasquirt connector?

Another question i haven't figured out is what is the +ve and -ve's between the EDIS8 and direct fire versions of the ecu are.

My main concern is not the installation of the hardware, it's the mapping and setup of the thing, i've downloaded a few of the software packages available and my mind was well and truely boggled, they didn't look user friendly at all (Not to mention there seems to be tens of different bits of software available, not all free).

Edited by B-Reight on Wednesday 31st March 21:47

Hi,
everything you need as far as software goes, is free and I supply it all. If you go to my site and look at the downloads section you can get the CD I supply and that has everything on it. I don't know if Im allowed to add a link, so I wont
Mapping isnt too bad as long as you use a wideband as theres software that I supply, that allows you to run datalogs through it and it will help you tune the fuel table for you. Your lucky with the RV8 in that the spark maps arnt really that different, although they alter mid range, most top end and idle map areas end up very similar.

Basically EDIS8 is an external module that fires the coil packs at the angle the ECU tells it to, is very robust and pretty imune to noise. On a TVR where grounds are not great in some cases, the EDIS is a good clean option. If you go for direct fire (the ECU will fire the coil packs) the noise is inside the ECU from firing the coils, so good grounds all connected to the engine block, resistive plugs, caps on the coil packs, good condition HT leads and a few other general wiring precautions are needed.
Once running the only advantage of direct fire is you can do spark cut for rev limitting, where as EDIS has a limp home mode, so you cant cut the spark, only the fuel. With EDIS you can only use the ford coils, not that theres an issue with that as they are superb and increadably relaible, I've never had one fail appart from the one on my test rig that I thrash to death every day with high dwells

Have a look at my site and look under Help and Support, then click on the yellow areas and have a read of those, especially MAP or TPS Settings and Checks Getting Started and Tuning Basic Wiring Instuctions
If not email me direct and I will send you all you need to have a read of, plenty to help any insomnia,
Phil

[daxtojeiro]

ed_crouch said:

Just bought one of Phil's ecus. Thumbs up from me!

Get rid of the cacky Landrover fuelling curve and the cacky ignition system. Go MS2.

I had a look at Motec the other night for a laugh. Go MS2.

Hi Ed,
glad to hear your happy with your choice
Phil

[B@man]

I know it's slightly off topic but I've just switched to a EDIS based MegaJolt system and I would not have any reservations about using the EDIS8 system. Overall I am very impressed due to the limp home mode you can test it before wiring in the ECU and keeping the ignition noise out of the ECU is a sensible precaution especially on a plastic car with iffy wiring.

One thing I have found out is that the EDIS does not have to be used with the Ford coil pack, any coil with similar characteristics (primary resistance of 0.5 - 0.7 ohms) will work fine. I've used GM ECTOEC packs which so far seem to work just fine but time will tell.

I Just need the AFM or ECU to throw the towel in and then I have the perfect excuse to go for MS2....

[gsx600]

daxtojeiro said:

chunder said:

Thanks Phil, checked out the site and will be in touch soon - I reckon if you develop a PnP for the flapper ECU you'd have a few buyers from in here !

GSX, installed a LM1 a while ago just on a gauge so as I could fiddle with the fuelling as was never right, courtesy of too wild a cam from the previous rebuild.

Not sure whether it can be used to give a degree of closed loop control but I think I now know a man that knows !

Are you intending on rewiring the loom or adjusting the MS to suit the existing ECU multipin connector ?

If theres a call for them I can do it,
Phil

So are we saying there is a connector that goes from MS to lucas wiring loom ? I thought a company in AUS had done this but have never found one, which is one of the reasons I've never finished the installtion ( and my soldering sucks whilst trying to solder up the ms connector)
I've now managed to source the connector with short tail so that I can attach my old loom to this (Think my ms is a V1.5 with edis support ?) so should be able to run sparks as well

Hopefully doing more of the soldering this weekend to see where I get to !

[adam quantrill]

Why not use an old knackered ECU, and stick the MS PCB inside for good measure (or is it too big?)

[gsx600]

Yeah tried that , and my efforts failed, still have the chassis, but connector did not come out that easily !

[daxtojeiro]

gsx600 said:

daxtojeiro said:

chunder said:

Thanks Phil, checked out the site and will be in touch soon - I reckon if you develop a PnP for the flapper ECU you'd have a few buyers from in here !

GSX, installed a LM1 a while ago just on a gauge so as I could fiddle with the fuelling as was never right, courtesy of too wild a cam from the previous rebuild.

Not sure whether it can be used to give a degree of closed loop control but I think I now know a man that knows !

Are you intending on rewiring the loom or adjusting the MS to suit the existing ECU multipin connector ?

If theres a call for them I can do it,
Phil

So are we saying there is a connector that goes from MS to lucas wiring loom ? I thought a company in AUS had done this but have never found one, which is one of the reasons I've never finished the installtion ( and my soldering sucks whilst trying to solder up the ms connector)
I've now managed to source the connector with short tail so that I can attach my old loom to this (Think my ms is a V1.5 with edis support ?) so should be able to run sparks as well

Hopefully doing more of the soldering this weekend to see where I get to !

Years ago I fitted an MS1 into the case of the old lucas flapper ecu, but it isnt pretty. I've done this for BMWs, Pugs, etc, etc.
Recently I simply got an old ECU and modified it to become an adaptor from MS to Lucas, this worked fine but getting the old ECUs is painful. I tried to sell it and no one wanted it, I guessed it was due to most people going hotwire. So I decided to look at the hotwire instead.
I've now got the MS2 and the hotwire plug fitted to a nice box and its being sold soon via V8D. Have a look on my site (see profile) for pics, etc. If theres the call for it then it wouldnt take much to do the flapper, as V8D have loads of the plugs available. Id hassle V8D and demand they do it for you
Phil

[B@man]

I suppose you can cut the lucas plug off the loom, there seems to be plenty of spare cable in the footwell and I can't see anyone wanting to go back to to clockwork system.

[leorest]

B@man said:

I suppose you can cut the lucas plug off the loom, there seems to be plenty of spare cable in the footwell and I can't see anyone wanting to go back to to clockwork system.

You could cut the loom and fit a plug/socket to remake the connection to the original ECU and then make another adapter loom for the new ECU. Trouble is all the extra connections will add unreliability!

[daxtojeiro]

To be honest, the best option is to remove the existing loom and make a new one out of the loom I supply, but some people feel this is beyond them or that they are changing from the originality of the car, so thats where a PnP comes in
Phil

[ed_crouch]

Well Im going to chonk the old lucas connector off the loom and splice it as necessary. I will probably completely rewire the engine bay in the future anyway as the insulation on the injector wiring etc has gone 'ard and will break up and there are one or two other shockers in there too, plus I have a problem with bodging an SD1 loom into a car it wasnt really designed for. I designed and built one for a sprint Vixen the other year, but a Wedge loom will be more complex...