Sorry, its a what car?

[Gad-Westy]

Hi all.

Long winded background to this. I was intending to buy a car late last year but a failure to sell a flat I own is dragging this out way longer than any petrolhead deserves to be without a performance car. I'm still not ready to buy but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Have my heart set on an E39 M5 but a few niggling doubts are starting to set in. My main concerns are the potential running costs. I think I can get my head around the servicing/repair costs as long as I don't buy a lemon but petrol costs and consumables seem to have potential to be very high. I'm concerned this would restrict/curtail my enjoyment of the car.

I'm certainly not ruling the E39 out, its still very much top of my list but just starting to wonder about some alternatives so seeking some inspiration.

So what I'm looking for:

• Budget around £10,000 though this is open to encouragement within reason.
• Running costs, I'd factored in around £400 per month to run an M5 before fuel. Ideally, I'd like this to be less.
• Minimal depreciation is something I have got used to and would like to repeat!
• Economy isn't a huge concern if its balanced by reasonable running costs in general. Have a Smart for the daily grind so annual mileage is unlikely to exceed 7000.
• A degree of practicality. More practical than a Smart FourTwo, an Elise or MX5. 4/5 seats isn't a necessity but would be an advantage. A boot is important.
• Almost certainly needs to be RWD, but crucially a great car to drive on quiet A/B roads and capable of long distances too.
• Must not be slow. Fast is relative but I would consider the M5 to be fast and something like a 968 to be acceptable.
• Needs to be special. I like owning something interesting to others as well as just me. Something iconic would be nice. But key is that I should look forward to driving it and enjoy looking out of the window to keep an eye on it!
• Car must be happy to live outside and hopefully not stand out too much as it will be parked on the street and left on its own all day.

Cars I've considered

E34 M5 - Not convinced it'll be any cheaper to run than E39 and I prefer the engine and interior of E39.

E30 M3 - Need convincing that my budget would get a good example.

Z M Coupe - Has potential

Lancia Delta Integrale - Too concerned about reliability (anyone able to convince me otherwise?)

Audi Quattro - Would be interested to try one but have heard stories of crucifying running costs

MK1 Clio V6 - I'm just not that keen on them, and I don't know why.

Porsche 968 CS - Very high up the list but worried that my budget won't get a good one. Girlfriend hates them too but I don't see that as a show stopper! 944 Turbo would also be an option.

TVR's in general - Budget seems to stretch to Chimeras, leggy Griffs and cerbs. I'd love any of these but don't like the idea of leaving them for days on end in the elements. Would imagine they benefit from a more pampered existence. Reliability is also a concern.

Alpinas - Generally all auto which is off putting but still interested. I remember there was a very rare E36 V8 that was manual. That would fit the fill nicely.

E36 M3 - Not keen on these for some reason.

E46 M3 - Think I'd prefer the E39 M5 and suspect costs would be similar.

Seeking any inspiration!

[jackal]

968 sport, geta great one for 10k

911 virgin just sold a minter for 7k

better drivers car than anything ever made by BMW

[Gad-Westy]

jackal said:

968 sport, geta great one for 10k

911 virgin just sold a minter for 7k

better drivers car than anything ever made by BMW

Controversial! Though I'm yet to drive a CS so I can't say you're wrong. The one thing that is making me hesitate about the 968 is the four pot engine. I've had plenty of four pots and would love a big engine. I'm also concerned that it won't be a great place to be for the times when I'm just using it to commute etc.. Think I need to go and try one.

[jackal]

its pretty nice for a 4 pot but yes, it is just a 4 pot

you buy the car for its build, its amazing balance and the fact that it is special


it does tick every singl box on your list though

suprisingly practical, cheap to run and it wont lose a penny

[richcorsavxr]

vx monaro.....v8 engine, rwd, rear seats, and pretty rare. as long as your not a badge man i would consider it

[RobM77]

jackal said:

better drivers car than anything ever made by BMW

I agree, although it's a little unfair to compare a two seater sports car with most of BMW's output, which are four seater family cars that are driver focused. I don't think anyone goes out and buys a 330ci as an alternative to a Boxster for a driver's car do they? More likely an alternative to a Mercedes C Class, Audi A4 etc. My own opinion of cars like the E46 M3 is that they're great for what they are (four seater cars with boots), but like you I'd rather have a two seater Porsche designed from the ground up to be a driver's car.

My only concern with the 968 is its age. Yes, I know Porsche build quality back then probably rivalled Mercedes in their best years, but its still a very old car from the point of view of the perishing components (bushes, hoses and dampers primarily; and of course the engine as another concern), and of course crash safety. £10k's an awkward price point, where you're torn between older stuff like the 968 that is truly special, and newer stuff which is nowhere near as good, but obviously much newer and less likely to need big bills and is safer in an accident.

It's a shame that there aren't more affordable but moderately practical performance cars out there now. I had that brief when I bought my last car (practical performance), and it basically came down to a Cayman/Boxster (sadly I hated the variable ratio steering, and my legs are too long to get comfy), Z4C (which I bought), or 350Z (I couldn't get on with the controls, which are even lumpier and deadened than the Z4C, which is saying something). I've actually given up now, and plan to change the Z4C soon for a mundane four seater barge (maybe my Dad's 320d when he sells it) and make more use of the Elise, which is a proper drivers car with decent controls!

[Wadeski]

or an R33 Skyline?

[Incorrigible]

richcorsavxr said:

as long as your not a badge man i would consider it

Considering nearly everything on his list is either a BMW or a Porsche, what do you think

[Fox-]

An E39 540i Sport.

Looks like an M5 inside and out, but cheaper to run.

[RobM77]

Incorrigible said:

richcorsavxr said:

as long as your not a badge man i would consider it

Considering nearly everything on his list is either a BMW or a Porsche, what do you think

Not necessarily. The Supra is a very big car, and although the handling is supposed to be fantastic it's more of a GT. The Skyline GTR is of course not a true RWD, and again is more of a GT really due to its size and weight. I'm a big fan of Japanese cars, but for the budget the only one I think I'd consider would be the RX7 - it's small, lightweight and practical. It put a jolly good fight up to the 968 at the time (I've got a couple of review comparisons somewhere). The 350Z I didn't like because the controls were jerky and dead and again it's more of a GT (1500kg+) than anything else. The S2000 I (and most magazines actually) never really rated as a driver's car. The MR2 is fantastic, but probably too impractical and/or slow in this company. Yes, the Supra was a fantastic FE/RWD GT, the NSX an unbelievable good supercar, and the MR2 a good sports car, but the Japanese offerings for affordable practical performance cars are rather thin on the ground or not capable enough. The new Toyota coupe due out soon is a very exciting prospect, but sadly it's only due to get 160bhp or 180bhp versions. If it's over 250bhp my deposit's going down

[Gad-Westy]

Incorrigible said:

richcorsavxr said:

as long as your not a badge man i would consider it

Considering nearly everything on his list is either a BMW or a Porsche, what do you think

A little unfair. I've owned a reasonable variety of vehicles in the past. Though being honest I do appreciate german engineering. If that's a crime, shoot me!

Anyway, to address the more helpful posts.

Monaro - I like these but the looks don't do much for me. I think they're worthy of further investigation though.

968 - very much a contender

540i - way too ordinary I'm afraid. Have driven a couple of them in the past an m5 is in a different league.

Eta as I missed a couple of suggestions.

Supra - I'd like to try one. Certainly a contender.

Skyline - used to love them. Now find them a little unattractive.

350z - a colleague has one. It's great but I'd prefer something else.

Boxster - I know the front boot is quite big but I'm not sure if they're practical enough. A cayman would be if they were half the price they're now.

Edited by Gad-Westy on Monday 5th April 16:16

[Wadeski]

Not sure if a supra will be too lardy if you are considering 5 series size cars, but you could add some of the rarer jap metal or even us imports to your list. Remember that gts skylines are true rwd.

[havoc]

M-Coupe would be my pick from your list. Or maybe a well-sorted Chimaera...

Alternatively:-
- DC5 Integra. Yes it's fwd but (power-oversteer aside) it doesn't feel it, and it'll demolish pretty-much any road you show it.
- Mk1 Focus RS. As above, but turbocharged if you don't like VTEC power-delivery.

Moving rwd:-
- RX7. Light, very agile, very quick. Reliability problems are overstated unless you buy a highly-tuned one. Hurley Eng'g in Coventry are known specialists and IIRC do ceramic rotor-tips which massively increase the time-between-rebuilds. £10k would get a nice one with a fresh rebuild.
- RX8. Peaky as hell, but great chassis. Not sure it'll be dep'n-proof though.


Other comments:
- 968 Sport more of a GT than a sports-car, but as you're thinking of an M5 that's probably not a biggie.
- Supras ditto. Plus manuals are pretty rare...

[Gad-Westy]

Some good suggestions so far.

Skylines - just don't like them. No particular reason.

Rx8 - maybe a little too ordinary. I like to be different.

Rx7 - I really like this idea. I need to do some research though as I remeber the running costs could be high. A contender.

Focus rs - not a fan I'm afraid.

Integra - possibility. Suspect they have some depreciating still to do though.