Re - mapping problems?
Discussion
Whilst I know this has probably been spoken about 100's of times before on PH,
has anyone ever had any long term problems after remapping a turbo diesel engine?
I am currently in the market for a new car (TD) and everyone bar a few have suggested remapping them.
What is everyones thoughts?
has anyone ever had any long term problems after remapping a turbo diesel engine?
I am currently in the market for a new car (TD) and everyone bar a few have suggested remapping them.
What is everyones thoughts?
is it for a 335d...
Answer depends on how much power and torque you go for, slight increases are fairly safe and your insurance might not increase that much, go for a big jump and your clutch and gearbox might not last very long though if you only keep your car for a year or two that may not be a huge issue.
Answer depends on how much power and torque you go for, slight increases are fairly safe and your insurance might not increase that much, go for a big jump and your clutch and gearbox might not last very long though if you only keep your car for a year or two that may not be a huge issue.
i had my '05 renault dCi remapped from 152 to 189 - which ticked over to 150,000 miles this morning.
i'd put a new (its first replacement) clutch on at 115k, but i see that as fair wear and tear and not a direct consequence of the remap.
as above - just consider parts a likely to wear out slightly quicker, dependant upon driving style. also consider reducing service intervals etc?
i'd put a new (its first replacement) clutch on at 115k, but i see that as fair wear and tear and not a direct consequence of the remap.
as above - just consider parts a likely to wear out slightly quicker, dependant upon driving style. also consider reducing service intervals etc?
D188ERS said:
i had my '05 renault dCi remapped from 152 to 189 - which ticked over to 150,000 miles this morning.
i'd put a new (its first replacement) clutch on at 115k, but i see that as fair wear and tear and not a direct consequence of the remap.
as above - just consider parts a likely to wear out slightly quicker, dependant upon driving style. also consider reducing service intervals etc?
Did you have this car from new? 150,000 miles in 5 years - what sort of MPG have you got from the car?i'd put a new (its first replacement) clutch on at 115k, but i see that as fair wear and tear and not a direct consequence of the remap.
as above - just consider parts a likely to wear out slightly quicker, dependant upon driving style. also consider reducing service intervals etc?
Crusoe said:
is it for a 335d...
Answer depends on how much power and torque you go for, slight increases are fairly safe and your insurance might not increase that much, go for a big jump and your clutch and gearbox might not last very long though if you only keep your car for a year or two that may not be a huge issue.
No just in general. I am more looking at smaller diesels such as golf tdi 130/seat ibiza fr diesel etc. I just think if the car is designed and built with the power it has, why mess with it? surely if companies could produce the power you can get from remaps - they would in the first place? Answer depends on how much power and torque you go for, slight increases are fairly safe and your insurance might not increase that much, go for a big jump and your clutch and gearbox might not last very long though if you only keep your car for a year or two that may not be a huge issue.
I wouldn't have thought you would need to remap a 335d!!
Due to personal experience i'm now wary about remapping.
I had my turbo diesel remapped hoping to gain the additonal power/torque and better MPG as generally quoted, however after the remap the car just didn't feel that different, it had more 'shove' at the top end, but didn't feel an overall improvement across the rev range as I was expecting. I contacted the company that remapped it to have a chat and they said the differences do vary by car and that they would be happy to map it again to see if it would improve it - that's fair enough. I told them I was soon to be attending a rolling road session and would use that to get an objective view on the cars performance and general running.
On the rolling road my car did post an improvement in bhp and torque over standard but it also filled their room with black and blue smoke. The operator commented it wasn't running right and seemed to be over-fueling whilst not getting enough air-flow and that the blue smoke was a worry and should be checked out - it was later confirmed that the turbo was on its way out. I contacted the remapping company who at my request put the car back to standard and offered to map the car again after I had it fixed.
I had the car repaired but have declined to have it remapped again. I think remapping is a bit of a dark art as in my case it would be difficult to prove if the map was indeed wrong, or if there were inherent problems with the car, or if a combination of the two accelerated the turbo failure.
Long story but if you are going down the remapping route i'd spend time talking to whoever you choose, find out exactly how they do it and what comeback you have in the event you are not happy. I wouldn't go there again, once bitten and all that...
I had my turbo diesel remapped hoping to gain the additonal power/torque and better MPG as generally quoted, however after the remap the car just didn't feel that different, it had more 'shove' at the top end, but didn't feel an overall improvement across the rev range as I was expecting. I contacted the company that remapped it to have a chat and they said the differences do vary by car and that they would be happy to map it again to see if it would improve it - that's fair enough. I told them I was soon to be attending a rolling road session and would use that to get an objective view on the cars performance and general running.
On the rolling road my car did post an improvement in bhp and torque over standard but it also filled their room with black and blue smoke. The operator commented it wasn't running right and seemed to be over-fueling whilst not getting enough air-flow and that the blue smoke was a worry and should be checked out - it was later confirmed that the turbo was on its way out. I contacted the remapping company who at my request put the car back to standard and offered to map the car again after I had it fixed.
I had the car repaired but have declined to have it remapped again. I think remapping is a bit of a dark art as in my case it would be difficult to prove if the map was indeed wrong, or if there were inherent problems with the car, or if a combination of the two accelerated the turbo failure.
Long story but if you are going down the remapping route i'd spend time talking to whoever you choose, find out exactly how they do it and what comeback you have in the event you are not happy. I wouldn't go there again, once bitten and all that...
rharris21 said:
... I am more looking at smaller diesels such as golf tdi 130/seat ibiza fr diesel etc. I just think if the car is designed and built with the power it has, why mess with it? surely if companies could produce the power you can get from remaps - they would in the first place?
A few reasons - by pegging the power at a certain level, it can reduce the potential emissions and keep the dreaded RFT down. Also, these cars are often produced and sold in most European countries, some of which have far worse quality fuel than we do in the UK. Whatever map is loaded at the factory has to be able to deal with the worst potential combination of crappy fuel, extremes of temperature and humidity, etc., and still run reliably.Remapping by a reputable tuner should lift the restrictions put in place for reasons such as that without upping the power and torque so much that it unduly damages any of the engine or drivetrain.
parapaul said:
rharris21 said:
... I am more looking at smaller diesels such as golf tdi 130/seat ibiza fr diesel etc. I just think if the car is designed and built with the power it has, why mess with it? surely if companies could produce the power you can get from remaps - they would in the first place?
A few reasons - by pegging the power at a certain level, it can reduce the potential emissions and keep the dreaded RFT down. Also, these cars are often produced and sold in most European countries, some of which have far worse quality fuel than we do in the UK. Whatever map is loaded at the factory has to be able to deal with the worst potential combination of crappy fuel, extremes of temperature and humidity, etc., and still run reliably.Remapping by a reputable tuner should lift the restrictions put in place for reasons such as that without upping the power and torque so much that it unduly damages any of the engine or drivetrain.
I had my e46 330d sport done and it certainly improves perfomance a lot although not too sure about economy, suppose it depends on your driving style. I'd be careful about doing it again cos a few months after I'd sold it the new owner phoned me to inform me that the gearbox had broken. It may just be coincidence but maybe not.
I've had a couple of 2L turbo diesels remapped and never had any problems.
Didn't do a long run yet either (longest about 60k miles without any problems), but I'm really interested in this too.
Also, the faster wear, is it applicable when talking about a car that has more power in another guise?
(Ex a 320d remapped -> same power as a 325d, gearbox and drivetrain the same?, only increased engine wear?)
Didn't do a long run yet either (longest about 60k miles without any problems), but I'm really interested in this too.
Also, the faster wear, is it applicable when talking about a car that has more power in another guise?
(Ex a 320d remapped -> same power as a 325d, gearbox and drivetrain the same?, only increased engine wear?)
rharris21 said:
Whilst I know this has probably been spoken about 100's of times before on PH,
has anyone ever had any long term problems after remapping a turbo diesel engine?
I am currently in the market for a new car (TD) and everyone bar a few have suggested remapping them.
What is everyones thoughts?
1. are you going to keep it long term?has anyone ever had any long term problems after remapping a turbo diesel engine?
I am currently in the market for a new car (TD) and everyone bar a few have suggested remapping them.
What is everyones thoughts?
If no, then does it even matter?
2. It's not mapping that's an issue. It's what, who, how and why. And also to what. Not all cars are the same.
300bhp/ton said:
rharris21 said:
Whilst I know this has probably been spoken about 100's of times before on PH,
has anyone ever had any long term problems after remapping a turbo diesel engine?
I am currently in the market for a new car (TD) and everyone bar a few have suggested remapping them.
What is everyones thoughts?
1. are you going to keep it long term?has anyone ever had any long term problems after remapping a turbo diesel engine?
I am currently in the market for a new car (TD) and everyone bar a few have suggested remapping them.
What is everyones thoughts?
If no, then does it even matter?
2. It's not mapping that's an issue. It's what, who, how and why. And also to what. Not all cars are the same.
It seems as if the bigger more powerful diesels can cope with remapping as they already have components etc to cope with that sort of power is that correct? I am trying to find a 330d but there are not many around for my budget. What sort of mileage would be appropriate to buy a used 330d if I were to keep it for 3 years or so?
You can do a MAP at any point.
Diesel tuning is rather different to petrol cars.
As a rule its mostly about fuelling. As in throw as much diesel in as you can but not quite enough to melt anything.
Usually the internal engine components are good for a bit of tuning, so I wouldn't worry too much in this regard.
Tuning may also up the boost (not always), involve a better and/or bigger intercooler and often play with the ECU settings if it has things like torque management and rpm limits.
If you get serious then bigger turbo's, ported heads and different cams are still on the books as potential upgrades.
Often the bigger limitation with diesel tuning is the rest of the drivetrain. Gearboxes are usually rated to a torque level not HP. So a highly tuned diesel may well eat gearboxes and clutches. But you'll need to check on a model by model basis.
EGT's are another area to look out for. The more fuel = the more heat. Exhaust Gas Temps can rise quickly and can cause issues. Big bore exhaust help to reduce these temps.
But that said more moderate maps and chips don't take things anywhere near as extreme as all this.
So in short I wouldn't worry too much about it and just enjoy it.
And remember if it doesn't smoke, then it's not tuned enough
Also as a final note, if diesel performance interests you, its worth knowing that diesels respond very well to nitrous oxide kits. And can give an easy hefty HP at the flick of a switch.
Diesel tuning is rather different to petrol cars.
As a rule its mostly about fuelling. As in throw as much diesel in as you can but not quite enough to melt anything.
Usually the internal engine components are good for a bit of tuning, so I wouldn't worry too much in this regard.
Tuning may also up the boost (not always), involve a better and/or bigger intercooler and often play with the ECU settings if it has things like torque management and rpm limits.
If you get serious then bigger turbo's, ported heads and different cams are still on the books as potential upgrades.
Often the bigger limitation with diesel tuning is the rest of the drivetrain. Gearboxes are usually rated to a torque level not HP. So a highly tuned diesel may well eat gearboxes and clutches. But you'll need to check on a model by model basis.
EGT's are another area to look out for. The more fuel = the more heat. Exhaust Gas Temps can rise quickly and can cause issues. Big bore exhaust help to reduce these temps.
But that said more moderate maps and chips don't take things anywhere near as extreme as all this.
So in short I wouldn't worry too much about it and just enjoy it.
And remember if it doesn't smoke, then it's not tuned enough
Also as a final note, if diesel performance interests you, its worth knowing that diesels respond very well to nitrous oxide kits. And can give an easy hefty HP at the flick of a switch.
Check out the forums of the specific car you are thinking of re-mapping to check out other people's experiences. I did this for research and decided against a re-map of my Fabia VRS (for now), because of the very likely chance of a broken clutch and DMF, and the less likely chance of turbo failure.
Also, go with a reputable place - cheap ones can blow turbos with boost spikes and other problems.
Also, go with a reputable place - cheap ones can blow turbos with boost spikes and other problems.
Edited by Hub on Thursday 8th April 13:24
I have had two of my diesel cars remapped and both with total sucess,
First one was a mk4 Golf Anniversary 150tdi, it had covered 60k when I had it done, otherthan a clutch and flywheel replacement (common fault on these anyway) there was and have been no issues with the car and I believe it has now coveredsome 20k miles since the remap (it was sold to a friends brother in 08)
and secondly my 335d Touring it was remapped after a few weeks of owning it, both power and fuel economy have improved, and it's now IMO the most versatile 3 series available, it has beenback to the dealer for warranty work without any issues too
My VW Transporter T5 130 was bought already remapped and it has transformed it, I drove a stock 130 at work to pull a car trailer and in comparison to mine it struggled a little, so far the van has been reliable but it's early days, I can't see the remap having any reliability issues with it either
So IMO get it done
First one was a mk4 Golf Anniversary 150tdi, it had covered 60k when I had it done, otherthan a clutch and flywheel replacement (common fault on these anyway) there was and have been no issues with the car and I believe it has now coveredsome 20k miles since the remap (it was sold to a friends brother in 08)
and secondly my 335d Touring it was remapped after a few weeks of owning it, both power and fuel economy have improved, and it's now IMO the most versatile 3 series available, it has beenback to the dealer for warranty work without any issues too
My VW Transporter T5 130 was bought already remapped and it has transformed it, I drove a stock 130 at work to pull a car trailer and in comparison to mine it struggled a little, so far the van has been reliable but it's early days, I can't see the remap having any reliability issues with it either
So IMO get it done
I have had a vw golf 150 tdi remapped by jabbasport nr peterborough quoted 208bhp on dyno and ran it for the last 6 years from 69k. Had new clutch and turbo last year which i presume was age more than anything (02)plate and just pxed today on 330d m sport auto which i will be happy to remap when i fancy a change. I had no mechanical issues at all in all that time and still going strong at 128k and would recommend them to anyone.
I'd echo what many have said above. Go with a good reputable company...don't go for the cheapest, as with most things in life....you get what you pay for.
Remember that any remap can put more stress on certain components of your car, so if any of them are worn or the car is getting on a bit, then you might have some problems e.g. if the clutch is slipping before a remap, it's only going to be worse after. That may sound like common sense, but I have a mate who does this full-time and you'd be amazed the number of times people complain about stuff like that.
I can give you his name/website if you like?
Remember that any remap can put more stress on certain components of your car, so if any of them are worn or the car is getting on a bit, then you might have some problems e.g. if the clutch is slipping before a remap, it's only going to be worse after. That may sound like common sense, but I have a mate who does this full-time and you'd be amazed the number of times people complain about stuff like that.
I can give you his name/website if you like?
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