XJR or S Type Jag, am I mad?
Discussion
I bought my current Mitsubishi 3000GT because I needed a smooth ride due to health reasons, but even though I have no complaints, indeed it is a better car than I imagined,I can't help but feel that Jaguar do the best "magic carpet ride", & keep looking at XJR's & S Type Jags. Maintenance costs are not an issue, but have a ceiling of maybe £4.5 to 5k if I sell the Mitsi.
Would I be mad to do it at my budget, or will I avoid nasty surprises if I buy wisely? It seems that there is plenty of choice at that price level, surely they can't all be money pits?
Would I be mad to do it at my budget, or will I avoid nasty surprises if I buy wisely? It seems that there is plenty of choice at that price level, surely they can't all be money pits?
Hi Speedracer329,
I have owned an XJR for the last 9 years and can honestly say that it has not been a money pit. However, I have only driven a total of 30,000 miles in all that time, as I have access to other cars, one of which is an XKR. Both cars are 1998 build and have both been very reliable, XKR has done 35,000 miles in 8 years of ownership. The engines have proved to be very robust, in spite of the much mentioned problems that some have suffered (I think these difficulties were related to a coating that was used to line the engines, possibly called nikesil???). I would mention that the ride quality of the cars is at the firm end of comfortable, if you want the magic carpet then that would be the "Sovereign" experience. It is also the case that the XJR is probably not a car for the taller driver, I am 5' 11" and cope, just about, with the leg and headroom (although my model does have slightly less headroom, as it has a factory fitted sunroof). If you are looking for the car to transport four adults then it is important to note that the leg room for the rear seated passengers can be very limited, particularly when the front seats are positioned for taller occupants to sit in the front of the car. These cars are also quite long and do take some getting used to, especially when parking, as the shape means that you see little of the boot or bonnet, if you can get one with parking sensors then that would be ideal.
I have to say, that apart from these observations (plus the smallish boot), I love the car, both the way it drives and the way it looks inside and out. Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to drive an "S" Type and I doubt that there will be many if any "R" versions up for sale at less than £5,000 as yet, but I would imagine that these cars will be even more impressive than my cars, as I think they have the benefit of the larger 4.2 litre engine and will presumably be more spacious inside.
I have owned an XJR for the last 9 years and can honestly say that it has not been a money pit. However, I have only driven a total of 30,000 miles in all that time, as I have access to other cars, one of which is an XKR. Both cars are 1998 build and have both been very reliable, XKR has done 35,000 miles in 8 years of ownership. The engines have proved to be very robust, in spite of the much mentioned problems that some have suffered (I think these difficulties were related to a coating that was used to line the engines, possibly called nikesil???). I would mention that the ride quality of the cars is at the firm end of comfortable, if you want the magic carpet then that would be the "Sovereign" experience. It is also the case that the XJR is probably not a car for the taller driver, I am 5' 11" and cope, just about, with the leg and headroom (although my model does have slightly less headroom, as it has a factory fitted sunroof). If you are looking for the car to transport four adults then it is important to note that the leg room for the rear seated passengers can be very limited, particularly when the front seats are positioned for taller occupants to sit in the front of the car. These cars are also quite long and do take some getting used to, especially when parking, as the shape means that you see little of the boot or bonnet, if you can get one with parking sensors then that would be ideal.
I have to say, that apart from these observations (plus the smallish boot), I love the car, both the way it drives and the way it looks inside and out. Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to drive an "S" Type and I doubt that there will be many if any "R" versions up for sale at less than £5,000 as yet, but I would imagine that these cars will be even more impressive than my cars, as I think they have the benefit of the larger 4.2 litre engine and will presumably be more spacious inside.
Thanks for the replies, especially 12Pot. Funnily enough headroom on the GT300 is not great either, I am 6ft & the sunroof really intrudes. I have test driven a couple of XJR's, & the ride quality is good enough for me. I don't have to worry about passengers, or a small boot, & my mileage would be very small.
Not driven an S Type, but I don't think the interior compares to the XJR. Mind you, come to think of it, neither does the exterior!
I know about the nikasil problems & the chain tensioner upgrade, on the V8, my understanding is these issues do not affect the earlier V6, but that the later V8 is a much better car all round, & aluminium bodied,unless someone can tell me different?
Not driven an S Type, but I don't think the interior compares to the XJR. Mind you, come to think of it, neither does the exterior!
I know about the nikasil problems & the chain tensioner upgrade, on the V8, my understanding is these issues do not affect the earlier V6, but that the later V8 is a much better car all round, & aluminium bodied,unless someone can tell me different?
I have had a '99 xjr for about six years. For the most part it has been a hoot. Do not listen to all the stories about unreliability. My problem is that I do not get to drive mine enough.
Been lucky and not had to buy any parts other than tyres. Fuel comsumption has averaged 18.6 mpg, for the last 18k miles. Mostly motorway miles . I know I am biased but I really do not know what I would replace it with
Been lucky and not had to buy any parts other than tyres. Fuel comsumption has averaged 18.6 mpg, for the last 18k miles. Mostly motorway miles . I know I am biased but I really do not know what I would replace it with
Wrote this elsewhere:-
I'm on my second diesel S the first was an 54 SE this one is a high spec 56 Sport. The Sport rides better than an equivalent 5 or A6 but it isn't as cosseting as a Jag should be,the SE hand a fantastic ride.
Bloody good cars & my dealer experiences have been good, not cheap but good. Make sure you test everything or get someone who has one to test it for you. Subtle ride issues etc. are not obvious especially if you've been driving a non-Jag car previously. For instance I had a subtle rattle & ride issue, turned out to be a knackered bush in the complex rear suspension, around £80 or so.
I'm on my second diesel S the first was an 54 SE this one is a high spec 56 Sport. The Sport rides better than an equivalent 5 or A6 but it isn't as cosseting as a Jag should be,the SE hand a fantastic ride.
Bloody good cars & my dealer experiences have been good, not cheap but good. Make sure you test everything or get someone who has one to test it for you. Subtle ride issues etc. are not obvious especially if you've been driving a non-Jag car previously. For instance I had a subtle rattle & ride issue, turned out to be a knackered bush in the complex rear suspension, around £80 or so.
Hi Speedracer,
Glad to hear you are considering a supercharged Jag - you won't be dissappointed. I'm not too knowledgable about the S-Types because I've always had the feeling that if you're going to drive a Jag, it's got to be as Sir William Lyons intended - Grace, Space and Pace. Hence the XJ has always floated my boat.
Firstly having read the thread thus far; a couple of points of clarification:
I originally set out to buy an X300 XJR and was mightily impressed with them on test-drives - until I drove an X308. The engine isn't much more powerful (about 50bhp), but the 5-speed 'box makes a whole world of difference, as does the suspension which has CATS (Computer Active Technology Suspension) as standard.
The potential reliabilty issues of the X308 are well documented on this site and I myself suffered many of them. If buying one now, I'd be looking for either a replacement engine or a receipt for the Phase 3 timing chain tensioners as the main history requirement.
The X308 is very easy to live with. I never had an issue with space and found the boot could accommodate a pushchair, travel cot, high chair, weekend bags, Christmas presents etc. without much difficulty.
Although supremely comfortable, I always thought of my XJR as being a little fidgety compared to my old XJ40 Sovereign but now realise how spoilt I had been all those years. The E39 BMW I now drive has hideous ride and body control in comparison to the XJR.
Incidentally, my old XJR is currently for sale (not by me) here: http://www.illustrious-automotive.co.uk/. I can vouch that it has a replacement engine and phase 3 tensioners as well as a history folder with more volumes than the Good Book.
Happy hunting!
Glad to hear you are considering a supercharged Jag - you won't be dissappointed. I'm not too knowledgable about the S-Types because I've always had the feeling that if you're going to drive a Jag, it's got to be as Sir William Lyons intended - Grace, Space and Pace. Hence the XJ has always floated my boat.
Firstly having read the thread thus far; a couple of points of clarification:
- The X300 was produced 1995-1997 with an ultra-reliable straight six (3.2,4.0 & 4.0s/c) and the ultra-reliable/rare/expensive-to-run 6.0 V12.
- The X308 was essentially the same car re-engineered to accept the XK8 running gear using the 3.5,4.0 & 4.0s/c V8. Produced 1998-2003.
- The X350 is the aluminium leviathon produced from 2003 and is an entirely different car, using V6's and the revised 4.2 V8s and even 2.7 diseasals.
I originally set out to buy an X300 XJR and was mightily impressed with them on test-drives - until I drove an X308. The engine isn't much more powerful (about 50bhp), but the 5-speed 'box makes a whole world of difference, as does the suspension which has CATS (Computer Active Technology Suspension) as standard.
The potential reliabilty issues of the X308 are well documented on this site and I myself suffered many of them. If buying one now, I'd be looking for either a replacement engine or a receipt for the Phase 3 timing chain tensioners as the main history requirement.
The X308 is very easy to live with. I never had an issue with space and found the boot could accommodate a pushchair, travel cot, high chair, weekend bags, Christmas presents etc. without much difficulty.
Although supremely comfortable, I always thought of my XJR as being a little fidgety compared to my old XJ40 Sovereign but now realise how spoilt I had been all those years. The E39 BMW I now drive has hideous ride and body control in comparison to the XJR.
Incidentally, my old XJR is currently for sale (not by me) here: http://www.illustrious-automotive.co.uk/. I can vouch that it has a replacement engine and phase 3 tensioners as well as a history folder with more volumes than the Good Book.
Happy hunting!
Edited by groomi on Friday 9th April 09:42
Speedracer329 said:
I bought my current Mitsubishi 3000GT because I needed a smooth ride due to health reasons, but even though I have no complaints, indeed it is a better car than I imagined,I can't help but feel that Jaguar do the best "magic carpet ride", & keep looking at XJR's & S Type Jags. Maintenance costs are not an issue, but have a ceiling of maybe £4.5 to 5k if I sell the Mitsi.
Would I be mad to do it at my budget, or will I avoid nasty surprises if I buy wisely? It seems that there is plenty of choice at that price level, surely they can't all be money pits?
It's worth noting that for many years Jaguar has out ranked Merc, BMW and Audi in customer satisfaction and reliability surveys.Would I be mad to do it at my budget, or will I avoid nasty surprises if I buy wisely? It seems that there is plenty of choice at that price level, surely they can't all be money pits?
Personally I don't mind the S Type, but it would still have to be the XJ for me. It uses the proper Jaguar in house IRS (S Type doesn't) and is simply superb.
If you want ultimate smoothness see if you can find a Damiler, although much rarer and they stopped selling them.
I doubt very much that you would be disappointed.
Speedracer329 said:
Not driven an S Type, but I don't think the interior compares to the XJR. Mind you, come to think of it, neither does the exterior!
I know about the nikasil problems & the chain tensioner upgrade, on the V8, my understanding is these issues do not affect the earlier V6, but that the later V8 is a much better car all round, & aluminium bodied,unless someone can tell me different?
The later XJR's (from about 2004 on) are aluminium bodied - but you'd be looking at circa £13,000+ for one of those.I know about the nikasil problems & the chain tensioner upgrade, on the V8, my understanding is these issues do not affect the earlier V6, but that the later V8 is a much better car all round, & aluminium bodied,unless someone can tell me different?
You wouldn't find an S type R for your budget I don't think. They're too new, being 2003-2006 in the main. You might find a knackered high miles 2002 within your budget, but I'd be very cautious.
The main difference between the S type and the XJR is size. My dad's S type R fits perfectly in a large garage. The XJR is considerably bigger and wouldn't fit at all. So bear in mind dimensions if you're planning something similar. Ironic that the S type has more room in both interior and boot.
For £5-6,000 you'll be looking at old cars. So buy carefully and buy on condition. Visit several before purchasing one.
Speedracer329 said:
I know about the nikasil problems & the chain tensioner upgrade, on the V8, my understanding is these issues do not affect the earlier V6, but that the later V8 is a much better car all round, & aluminium bodied,unless someone can tell me different?
Nikasil isn't an issue IMO. If the engine suffered it was replaced years ago. If it didn't, then it'll still be fine.Earlier cars where S6 not V6.
The aluminium XJ's are the last styled ones, slightly more chunky looking. The x308's are very similar to the x300 S6 powered cars.
You won't get an aluminium x358 XJ for your budget.
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