British Mentality to Cars
Discussion
I'm curious to the way us Brits think about our homegrown manufacturers after reading this thread
I was in Malaysia last week and everyone drives a Proton. There's loads of them everywhere, a few KIA's but essentially hardly any German metal at all. I know tax has a lot to do with it but I think they support their own industry. Then there's Australia with Holden and Ford Australia and they buy their own stuff. Then look at France; Renaults, Peugeots and Citroens as far as they eye can see. Germans - VWs, Audis and Mercs - check.
Then you come to the UK. Even now people still slag off Rover, long after it's dead. The thread above shows again how we are so keen to have a go at British engineering rather than appreciate what it can do. TVR made Ferrari fast cars for a 40% of the money. Ok build quality may not have been German but, rather like the Proton, it fulfilled a job to a budget.
People seem to forget that we used to have more car manufacturers beginning with the letter A than we have manufacturers now. If we don't change our attitude soon and start supporting our home grown manufacturing there will be nothing left.
ETA - fix link
I was in Malaysia last week and everyone drives a Proton. There's loads of them everywhere, a few KIA's but essentially hardly any German metal at all. I know tax has a lot to do with it but I think they support their own industry. Then there's Australia with Holden and Ford Australia and they buy their own stuff. Then look at France; Renaults, Peugeots and Citroens as far as they eye can see. Germans - VWs, Audis and Mercs - check.
Then you come to the UK. Even now people still slag off Rover, long after it's dead. The thread above shows again how we are so keen to have a go at British engineering rather than appreciate what it can do. TVR made Ferrari fast cars for a 40% of the money. Ok build quality may not have been German but, rather like the Proton, it fulfilled a job to a budget.
People seem to forget that we used to have more car manufacturers beginning with the letter A than we have manufacturers now. If we don't change our attitude soon and start supporting our home grown manufacturing there will be nothing left.
ETA - fix link
Edited by R11ysf on Friday 9th April 08:31
Edited by R11ysf on Friday 9th April 08:31
R11ysf said:
I'm curious to the way us Brits think about our homegrown manufacturers after reading this thread
I was in Malaysia last week and everyone drives a Proton. There's loads of them everywhere, a few KIA's but essentially hardly any German metal at all. I know tax has a lot to do with it but I think they support their own industry. Then there's Australia with Holden and Ford Australia and they buy their own stuff. Then look at France; Renaults, Peugeots and Citroens as far as they eye can see. Germans - VWs, Audis and Mercs - check.
Then you come to the UK. Even now people still slag off Rover, long after it's dead. The thread above shows again how we are so keen to have a go at British engineering rather than appreciate what it can do. TVR made Ferrari fast cars for a 40% of the money. Ok build quality may not have been German but, rather like the Proton, it fulfilled a job to a budget.
People seem to forget that we used to have more car manufacturers beginning with the letter A than we have manufacturers now. If we don't change our attitude soon and start supporting our home grown manufacturing there will be nothing left.
ETA - fix link
I think the problem is there are too many w*nkers in the UK and almost no sense of national pride.I was in Malaysia last week and everyone drives a Proton. There's loads of them everywhere, a few KIA's but essentially hardly any German metal at all. I know tax has a lot to do with it but I think they support their own industry. Then there's Australia with Holden and Ford Australia and they buy their own stuff. Then look at France; Renaults, Peugeots and Citroens as far as they eye can see. Germans - VWs, Audis and Mercs - check.
Then you come to the UK. Even now people still slag off Rover, long after it's dead. The thread above shows again how we are so keen to have a go at British engineering rather than appreciate what it can do. TVR made Ferrari fast cars for a 40% of the money. Ok build quality may not have been German but, rather like the Proton, it fulfilled a job to a budget.
People seem to forget that we used to have more car manufacturers beginning with the letter A than we have manufacturers now. If we don't change our attitude soon and start supporting our home grown manufacturing there will be nothing left.
ETA - fix link
Edited by R11ysf on Friday 9th April 08:31
Edited by R11ysf on Friday 9th April 08:31
Fittster said:
Why should I be forced to have an inferior product simply because of where it's made? If UK manufactures want to sell products they need class leading products and services.
You are missing my point entirely. A proton is an inferior product, but is a budget car. You may regard a TVR as an inferior product but as I wrote is was Ferrari fast for 40% of the price. Therefore, inferior in quality - yes, inferior on a cost to performance ratio - certainly not.Then again I suppose Rolls Royce was an inferior product too. Oh, and Cadbury. Lotus is Malaysian isn't it? Does no-one worry than in 20 years this country will import everything?
braddo said:
And you should see how many Japanese and European vehicles there are on Australian roads.... Fleet sales are the only reason Falcons and Commodores sell well over there.
Very good point. The Aussie gov't realise with all the cheap Asian imports on their doorstep that if they don't support their own manufacturing then they'll be f
ked by the cheaper imports made with cheap labour.Does anyone remember when the PM used to climb out a Rover. Now it's a BMW. George Bush - Caddilac. Obama - Cadillac. Is an Escilade really the best 4X4?? No, but we don't support ourselves anymore. If we don't no one else will.
R11ysf said:
I was in Malaysia last week and everyone drives a Proton. There's loads of them everywhere, a few KIA's but essentially hardly any German metal at all. I know tax has a lot to do with it but I think they support their own industry.
Malaysian import duties on cars are up to 300%. The British motor industry is dead because in the late 70s everyone clicked on that we were being pedalled utter rubbish. All of a sudden decent, reliable and well built cars were readily available from Japan and Europe.
The British Motor Industry then spent the next 25 years repeatedly shooting itself in the foot with continually substandard products. 25 years of opportunities to raise their game and they didn't.
The mentality is that the British are more shrewd and wise than the Yanks, have no loyality like the French and nothing to be proud of like the Japanese and Germans. The days of Lutonians only ever driving a Vauxhalls and anyone with an Essex postcode only buying a Ford are long gone.
The British Motor Industry then spent the next 25 years repeatedly shooting itself in the foot with continually substandard products. 25 years of opportunities to raise their game and they didn't.
The mentality is that the British are more shrewd and wise than the Yanks, have no loyality like the French and nothing to be proud of like the Japanese and Germans. The days of Lutonians only ever driving a Vauxhalls and anyone with an Essex postcode only buying a Ford are long gone.
In asia they have heavy import tax which makes it silly to buy imported cars. (Unless you have money to burn).
But I agree with others on here. If the UK had pride in their workmanship instead of fighting management and going on strike every year, then the UK could have been a world leader in car production and we could have seen to great mass production machines.
But I agree with others on here. If the UK had pride in their workmanship instead of fighting management and going on strike every year, then the UK could have been a world leader in car production and we could have seen to great mass production machines.
Fittster said:
Why should I be forced to have an inferior product simply because of where it's made? If UK manufactures want to sell products they need class leading products and services.
How do you figure they are inferior for F's sake.TVR used to sell you Ferrari beating performance, with as good as or better than Ferrari reliability for anywat from 1/4 to 1/2 the price and cheaper running costs.
And out of all the cars I've run, the Rover ones have been more reliable than the BMW's and many of the Japanese ones.
Jaguar still and have done for years beaten Merc, BMW and Audi in reliability surveys.
And Land Rover still sell some of the best 4x4's, still really unrivaled in their overall abilities by any other car maker.
Lotus still make the best sports cars, again unrivaled by any other car maker.
300bhp/ton said:
R11ysf said:
I'm curious to the way us Brits think about our homegrown manufacturers after reading this thread
I was in Malaysia last week and everyone drives a Proton. There's loads of them everywhere, a few KIA's but essentially hardly any German metal at all. I know tax has a lot to do with it but I think they support their own industry. Then there's Australia with Holden and Ford Australia and they buy their own stuff. Then look at France; Renaults, Peugeots and Citroens as far as they eye can see. Germans - VWs, Audis and Mercs - check.
Then you come to the UK. Even now people still slag off Rover, long after it's dead. The thread above shows again how we are so keen to have a go at British engineering rather than appreciate what it can do. TVR made Ferrari fast cars for a 40% of the money. Ok build quality may not have been German but, rather like the Proton, it fulfilled a job to a budget.
People seem to forget that we used to have more car manufacturers beginning with the letter A than we have manufacturers now. If we don't change our attitude soon and start supporting our home grown manufacturing there will be nothing left.
ETA - fix link
I think the problem is there are too many w*nkers in the UK and almost no sense of national pride.I was in Malaysia last week and everyone drives a Proton. There's loads of them everywhere, a few KIA's but essentially hardly any German metal at all. I know tax has a lot to do with it but I think they support their own industry. Then there's Australia with Holden and Ford Australia and they buy their own stuff. Then look at France; Renaults, Peugeots and Citroens as far as they eye can see. Germans - VWs, Audis and Mercs - check.
Then you come to the UK. Even now people still slag off Rover, long after it's dead. The thread above shows again how we are so keen to have a go at British engineering rather than appreciate what it can do. TVR made Ferrari fast cars for a 40% of the money. Ok build quality may not have been German but, rather like the Proton, it fulfilled a job to a budget.
People seem to forget that we used to have more car manufacturers beginning with the letter A than we have manufacturers now. If we don't change our attitude soon and start supporting our home grown manufacturing there will be nothing left.
ETA - fix link
Edited by R11ysf on Friday 9th April 08:31
Edited by R11ysf on Friday 9th April 08:31
You couldn't be more wrong. For starters, there are plenty of "foreign" cars made here - Nissan, Honda etc.
Next, please tell me which "british" low emission diesel saloon there is I should buy?
Used to have a TVR, but they don't exist any more.
Please don't confuse your love of out-dated, long since produced, rose tinted car obsession with being patriotic.
The countries the OP mention all heavily tax foreign cars, and give incentives to the locals - as simple as that.
300bhp/ton said:
Rawwr said:
When someone makes a car I like, I'll buy it. I'm not going to wield some sort of faux allegiance because I happen to have been created in the same country.
Well done, you've highlighted the Op's point of view with a perfect example.
edo said:
300bhp/ton said:
R11ysf said:
I'm curious to the way us Brits think about our homegrown manufacturers after reading this thread
I was in Malaysia last week and everyone drives a Proton. There's loads of them everywhere, a few KIA's but essentially hardly any German metal at all. I know tax has a lot to do with it but I think they support their own industry. Then there's Australia with Holden and Ford Australia and they buy their own stuff. Then look at France; Renaults, Peugeots and Citroens as far as they eye can see. Germans - VWs, Audis and Mercs - check.
Then you come to the UK. Even now people still slag off Rover, long after it's dead. The thread above shows again how we are so keen to have a go at British engineering rather than appreciate what it can do. TVR made Ferrari fast cars for a 40% of the money. Ok build quality may not have been German but, rather like the Proton, it fulfilled a job to a budget.
People seem to forget that we used to have more car manufacturers beginning with the letter A than we have manufacturers now. If we don't change our attitude soon and start supporting our home grown manufacturing there will be nothing left.
ETA - fix link
I think the problem is there are too many w*nkers in the UK and almost no sense of national pride.I was in Malaysia last week and everyone drives a Proton. There's loads of them everywhere, a few KIA's but essentially hardly any German metal at all. I know tax has a lot to do with it but I think they support their own industry. Then there's Australia with Holden and Ford Australia and they buy their own stuff. Then look at France; Renaults, Peugeots and Citroens as far as they eye can see. Germans - VWs, Audis and Mercs - check.
Then you come to the UK. Even now people still slag off Rover, long after it's dead. The thread above shows again how we are so keen to have a go at British engineering rather than appreciate what it can do. TVR made Ferrari fast cars for a 40% of the money. Ok build quality may not have been German but, rather like the Proton, it fulfilled a job to a budget.
People seem to forget that we used to have more car manufacturers beginning with the letter A than we have manufacturers now. If we don't change our attitude soon and start supporting our home grown manufacturing there will be nothing left.
ETA - fix link
Edited by R11ysf on Friday 9th April 08:31
Edited by R11ysf on Friday 9th April 08:31
You couldn't be more wrong. For starters, there are plenty of "foreign" cars made here - Nissan, Honda etc.
Next, please tell me which "british" low emission diesel saloon there is I should buy?
Used to have a TVR, but they don't exist any more.
Please don't confuse your love of out-dated, long since produced, rose tinted car obsession with being patriotic.
The countries the OP mention all heavily tax foreign cars, and give incentives to the locals - as simple as that.
As for buying British now, well of course its flipping hard or impossible because we (as a country and nation) have ensured no such car makers now exist.
Did the US gov let GM or Ford fall by the way side?
How about all the French, German and Jap car makers that have really suffered during the recession. Were they left out to dry?
And of course similar measures were evidently offered to keep Rover going - oh, no wait that's all fantasy isn't it. They let it slip and go under, asset stripped it and sold off what was left to the highest bidders.
300bhp/ton said:
Rawwr said:
When someone makes a car I like, I'll buy it. I'm not going to wield some sort of faux allegiance because I happen to have been created in the same country.
Well done, you've highlighted the Op's point of view with a perfect example.edo said:
The countries the OP mention all heavily tax foreign cars, and give incentives to the locals - as simple as that.
Malaysia yes - and I mention that. Germany and France, nope - that would be illegal under Eu law.Have a look at this
Sarkozy
Obama
FAW Hongqi Chinese President Hu Jintao
Maserati Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi
Toyota Crown Japan Emperor Hirohito
Holden Caprice Australia PM–Kevin Rudd
Mercedes Benz S Class German Chancellor Angela Merkel
Proton Chancellor - Malaysian PM
Oh sweet Irony
Rolls Royce - President of Zimbabwe Mugabe
R11ysf said:
Fittster said:
Why should I be forced to have an inferior product simply because of where it's made? If UK manufactures want to sell products they need class leading products and services.
You are missing my point entirely. A proton is an inferior product, but is a budget car. You may regard a TVR as an inferior product but as I wrote is was Ferrari fast for 40% of the price. Therefore, inferior in quality - yes, inferior on a cost to performance ratio - certainly not.Then again I suppose Rolls Royce was an inferior product too. Oh, and Cadbury. Lotus is Malaysian isn't it? Does no-one worry than in 20 years this country will import everything?
Do you think the cars Rolls was churning out as an independent company were better than cheaper Merc S classes?
For TVR remember the Speed 6. If you car won't start it doesn't matter how cheap it is. Also the last TVRs weren't that cheap.
In 20 years we will have gone bust and will be a cheap place for manufacturing again.
In one way, it was precisely that attitude of blind loyalty that killed off the British car industry. It was far too slow to react to the international competition and instead appears to have relied on the British public to simply trust them because of reputation and patriotism.
However, sitting on your drive turning your engine over and over every winter morning while your neighbour jumps into his Datsun and drives straight off would soon make you wonder.
Also, I think the British consumer is quite open-minded and I think we're able to detach emotion from decisions in a way that a lot of other nationalities can't or don't. Remember the old Skoda ads where they played on people's apprehensions? That campaign would have failed had the public been too ignorant to see the reality but it was a huge success, and very few people would dismiss Skoda as a brand now.
However, sitting on your drive turning your engine over and over every winter morning while your neighbour jumps into his Datsun and drives straight off would soon make you wonder.
Also, I think the British consumer is quite open-minded and I think we're able to detach emotion from decisions in a way that a lot of other nationalities can't or don't. Remember the old Skoda ads where they played on people's apprehensions? That campaign would have failed had the public been too ignorant to see the reality but it was a huge success, and very few people would dismiss Skoda as a brand now.
Edited by durbster on Friday 9th April 09:08
300bhp/ton said:
And of course similar measures were evidently offered to keep Rover going - oh, no wait that's all fantasy isn't it. They let it slip and go under, asset stripped it and sold off what was left to the highest bidders.
Why should a (any) company that isn't run well, or doesn't sell products that are up to the mark get bailed out by the government? If Rover had been making competitive products that consumers (an any country) wanted they would still be here.We've been here before, and I doubt we will ever see eye to eye on this. You think that Rover would still be here if the government had bailed it out. I think it wasnt making cars people wanted (in enough quantities), in in a cost effective way. Supply and demand.
I support UK industry where I can, and I am the first one who is saddened and pissed off that most of what we buy is imported (from China).
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