Would buying this 917 body be a good idea?
Discussion
I would have to say that I am sorely tempted, but even if I did, and built a suitable chassis, I'm not sure if I could get in it. And there may be other drawbacks too.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1582759.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1582759.htm
Building a car from the ground up? Rather you than me. But if you think you can do it, do it. You'll have fun and at the end of the day, if you REALLY can't fit in it (Practice on Tetris for hints and tips) you have either a great show piece or a car that should sell well. Just my 2 pence.
GTRene said:
ooo thats nice...wat brand/type is it? from the side it looks nice
ah found ithttp://www.zercustoms.com/news/Lavazza-GT-X-V12-5....
FraserLFA said:
Building a car from the ground up? Rather you than me.
Not extremely difficult though. My approach would be to first of all decide on a specification- engine and geabox, running gear, then decide on the suspension set up, consulting with suitable people. Then get a designer to draw up a chassis in CAD, then send the CAD output to a firm to have the tubing laser cnc cut, then set up a flat surface jig using lasers to align the components, jig the pickup points, and weld it up. After that it's basically straightforward kit assembly stuff. More fabrication to do than the average kit, of course, but pretty much what I do all the time.I don't mean to sound blase about it, but I reckon as long as input was got from suitable people, and care was taken, it could be done well, and in a reasonable time frame. My main problem with it would be affording all the bits that would be needed- engine, box, running gear and the 1001 and 1 other bits that make up a car can get quite pricy.
And, of course, one would have to decide whether or not to get some moulds made..........
Oh i totally agree it can be done and would be worth while, but it's not a task i'd want to undertake when starting with nothing but a shell. However, this is based around me not feeling confident enough to do it, where as you are. Good on ya chap. You clearly want to do it. GO ON GO ON GO ON!
singlecoil said:
FraserLFA said:
Building a car from the ground up? Rather you than me.
Not extremely difficult though. My approach would be to first of all decide on a specification- engine and geabox, running gear, then decide on the suspension set up, consulting with suitable people. Then get a designer to draw up a chassis in CAD, then send the CAD output to a firm to have the tubing laser cnc cut, then set up a flat surface jig using lasers to align the components, jig the pickup points, and weld it up. After that it's basically straightforward kit assembly stuff. More fabrication to do than the average kit, of course, but pretty much what I do all the time.I don't mean to sound blase about it, but I reckon as long as input was got from suitable people, and care was taken, it could be done well, and in a reasonable time frame. My main problem with it would be affording all the bits that would be needed- engine, box, running gear and the 1001 and 1 other bits that make up a car can get quite pricy.
And, of course, one would have to decide whether or not to get some moulds made..........
There are a few replica options currently available for the 917, most of these just run a 911 engine and box. You can even get a horizontal fan kit for the engine.
You can can also get a tube frame made to original drawings.
One thing about the layout of a 917 is your feet go further forward than the front axle line, or very near it.
Still something I would love to have a go at one day though, seeing a collection of them at Goodwood last year was superb.
I'm not a 917 expert, so am a bit concerned to hear about the foot position. one possible solution would be to stretch the body slightly, so as to move the windscree/cockpit back a bit, alternatively the cockpit rear bulkhead could go back a bit, especially if a shorter engine was used.
The obvious donor choice would be the Porsche Boxter, of course. The suspension looks amenable to be converted to double wishbones, I sure the engine could be pepped up a bit, and the rest of it would be easy to convert being already a mid-engined layout. Suitable donors are cheap in the context of a project like this.
The obvious donor choice would be the Porsche Boxter, of course. The suspension looks amenable to be converted to double wishbones, I sure the engine could be pepped up a bit, and the rest of it would be easy to convert being already a mid-engined layout. Suitable donors are cheap in the context of a project like this.
singlecoil said:
I'm not a 917 expert, so am a bit concerned to hear about the foot position. one possible solution would be to stretch the body slightly, so as to move the windscree/cockpit back a bit, alternatively the cockpit rear bulkhead could go back a bit, especially if a shorter engine was used.
The obvious donor choice would be the Porsche Boxter, of course. The suspension looks amenable to be converted to double wishbones, I sure the engine could be pepped up a bit, and the rest of it would be easy to convert being already a mid-engined layout. Suitable donors are cheap in the context of a project like this.
You can't mess around with the proportions otherwise you'll end up with some stupid pastiche. This was part of the 917 fundamental design. Yup Boxster would be a possible basis, 6 cylinders short but if you stretch the proportions who cares The obvious donor choice would be the Porsche Boxter, of course. The suspension looks amenable to be converted to double wishbones, I sure the engine could be pepped up a bit, and the rest of it would be easy to convert being already a mid-engined layout. Suitable donors are cheap in the context of a project like this.
Really should be on individual throttle bodies or carbs to look realistic. +1
messing with the proportions puts you on a path to the Laser 917 (last seen in the ugliest kitcar thread), does the world need another one of them? IIRC the pedals are ahead of the front axle - something it has in common with quite a few of it's contemporaries and most of it's predecessors.
As for the body itself - personally I'd want to know a little more of the provenance and quality: the ad's a little light on detail and a couple of things don't look quite right, having said that the enlarged photos aren't up to much.
I think RCR and someone else are doing replica, and the RCR is the cheap option... If you really are serious about this, you might want to pick 911hillclimber's brains as underneath the skin his machine doesn't seem a million miles away from what you're looking at in terms of proportions and layout - might be useful input for a feasibility study.
messing with the proportions puts you on a path to the Laser 917 (last seen in the ugliest kitcar thread), does the world need another one of them? IIRC the pedals are ahead of the front axle - something it has in common with quite a few of it's contemporaries and most of it's predecessors.
As for the body itself - personally I'd want to know a little more of the provenance and quality: the ad's a little light on detail and a couple of things don't look quite right, having said that the enlarged photos aren't up to much.
I think RCR and someone else are doing replica, and the RCR is the cheap option... If you really are serious about this, you might want to pick 911hillclimber's brains as underneath the skin his machine doesn't seem a million miles away from what you're looking at in terms of proportions and layout - might be useful input for a feasibility study.
Wouldn't be interested in a Kit, but there's nobody out there that I know of that is making bodies for sale. I Think even Fran only sells Turn key Minus engine and box rollers.... but I might be wrong.
One of those great cars of all time I must have at some point.
May have already been said but SVA will need a Deformable structure in-front of the Drivers feet if they are in-front of the front axle centre line....
One of those great cars of all time I must have at some point.
May have already been said but SVA will need a Deformable structure in-front of the Drivers feet if they are in-front of the front axle centre line....
My first question would be - windscreen? does one exist with correct markings for IVA or could one be made (without adding large digits to the cost)?
You may be able to rectify the issue with the drivers feet/axle line simply by moving the driving position further back within the cockpit if you're going to have more room within the engine bay??
What is the position with Porsche & the possibility of producing replica bodies?
You may be able to rectify the issue with the drivers feet/axle line simply by moving the driving position further back within the cockpit if you're going to have more room within the engine bay??
What is the position with Porsche & the possibility of producing replica bodies?
SuperT said:
My first question would be - windscreen? does one exist with correct markings for IVA or could one be made (without adding large digits to the cost)?
That's a solvable problem. Fortunately there's a PHer who runs a big replacement windscreen company and who knows all about this stuff, even has several Group C type windscreens in stock. It might still be expensive, but if more than one was involved then the costs would drop. He can get them done with built in demisting elements too.SuperT said:
You may be able to rectify the issue with the drivers feet/axle line simply by moving the driving position further back within the cockpit if you're going to have more room within the engine bay??
That was my thinking too, it stirkes me from lookng at pictures of running 917s that the cockpit rear bulkhead could go back a fair distance, and the Boxster power unit is a good deal shorter than the original flat 12. The big question is how far could the driving position go before it would make what must already be limited visibility a real problem.SuperT said:
What is the position with Porsche & the possibility of producing replica bodies?
Dunno. I know there are a fair few replicas of the early models knocking about, and as was said earlier, there are replicas of the 917, including the RCR one. My plan would be, were this to go anywhere, to make low cost the number one objective. Anybody can produce a decent car at a big price, the trick is to offer good value as well.Having said all the above, though, this issue of foot postion is concerning, and if I decide to pursue the Porsche replica idea I might choose one of the later cars if they would offer a better starting point. I've had an idea about how a body plug could be drawn in CAD but made up by hand more easily than the usual station lines in board with foam inbetween.
Edited by singlecoil on Sunday 11th April 21:35
they also seem to sell 917 replica's here...65k ?
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html...
I now see on the website of that 917 also the body for sale and that red car...
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html...
I now see on the website of that 917 also the body for sale and that red car...
Edited by GTRene on Sunday 11th April 23:52
The 917 is a tiny car when you are close up to a real one.
The wheelbase is actually shorter than my Lola (which is 92")
I seriously doubt you could sit further back to get your feet our of harms way, and the windscreen in glass would be ££££.
For a competition car this shell would be good i feel if you are ready to do a huge amount to cutting/stiffening/mounting the parts to fit. The screen could then be perspex or even lexan, but the costs still considerable.
I have thought about the advertised shell for my Lola but too much time and money.
A custom chassis approach would be a good one I think, but that to my mind is a major task.
The wheelbase is actually shorter than my Lola (which is 92")
I seriously doubt you could sit further back to get your feet our of harms way, and the windscreen in glass would be ££££.
For a competition car this shell would be good i feel if you are ready to do a huge amount to cutting/stiffening/mounting the parts to fit. The screen could then be perspex or even lexan, but the costs still considerable.
I have thought about the advertised shell for my Lola but too much time and money.
A custom chassis approach would be a good one I think, but that to my mind is a major task.
911hillclimber said:
The 917 is a tiny car when you are close up to a real one.
The wheelbase is actually shorter than my Lola (which is 92")
I seriously doubt you could sit further back to get your feet our of harms way, and the windscreen in glass would be ££££.
For a competition car this shell would be good i feel if you are ready to do a huge amount to cutting/stiffening/mounting the parts to fit. The screen could then be perspex or even lexan, but the costs still considerable.
I have thought about the advertised shell for my Lola but too much time and money.
A custom chassis approach would be a good one I think, but that to my mind is a major task.
I did actually answer the point about the glass a few posts ago, but your point about the small size is interesting to someone who is quite a large person. Why do you think the cockpit bulkhead could not be moved back, or are you saying it could be, but not enough?The wheelbase is actually shorter than my Lola (which is 92")
I seriously doubt you could sit further back to get your feet our of harms way, and the windscreen in glass would be ££££.
For a competition car this shell would be good i feel if you are ready to do a huge amount to cutting/stiffening/mounting the parts to fit. The screen could then be perspex or even lexan, but the costs still considerable.
I have thought about the advertised shell for my Lola but too much time and money.
A custom chassis approach would be a good one I think, but that to my mind is a major task.
With the 917 racer, the driver is right at the bulkhead as the flat 12 is a huge engine, hence the driver is right forward. All the early Porsche racers were like this with anything bigger than a flat 6. The 908 with an 8 pot has the same forward position, but the 906 is far far better.
If a replica was made with a 911 engine in it then the driver could well sit further back but the side view on the road would be masked by the roll hoop/bulkhead section of the car.
There is a great replica made in the USA using a 911 engine/box rather like my Lola but the space between the end of the engine and the seating / bulkhead is about 12'': very useful, but it is not used by the builder ar all, just a big gap that looks odd with the rear clam shell opened.
Google search will find the company. Well worth finding as there are good pics of the innerds of the car. The 917 chassis is no hot rod chassis, more a bird-cage.
http://www.werkzcars.com/917.html
On You Tube there is a fine group of vids about the restoration of a real 917, about 18 sections and that really is good (I've viewed them all...)In all a complex car, but what a car!
The cockpit is very narrow on the racer. A 'kit-car' approach would yield more room but the position of the drivers head will be critical as there is little space. The car is nothing like an Ultima.
If a replica was made with a 911 engine in it then the driver could well sit further back but the side view on the road would be masked by the roll hoop/bulkhead section of the car.
There is a great replica made in the USA using a 911 engine/box rather like my Lola but the space between the end of the engine and the seating / bulkhead is about 12'': very useful, but it is not used by the builder ar all, just a big gap that looks odd with the rear clam shell opened.
Google search will find the company. Well worth finding as there are good pics of the innerds of the car. The 917 chassis is no hot rod chassis, more a bird-cage.
http://www.werkzcars.com/917.html
On You Tube there is a fine group of vids about the restoration of a real 917, about 18 sections and that really is good (I've viewed them all...)In all a complex car, but what a car!
The cockpit is very narrow on the racer. A 'kit-car' approach would yield more room but the position of the drivers head will be critical as there is little space. The car is nothing like an Ultima.
Edited by 911hillclimber on Monday 12th April 12:47
Edited by 911hillclimber on Monday 12th April 12:52
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