Wasting Your Vote
Discussion
Why do people keep saying that a vote for a party other than Conservative or Labour is a waste??? Surely this is the essense of democracy?? If everyone acually voted for the party whose policies they most identified with, instead of sticking with the big two, then maybe things would change!
Even if you think there is a difference between blue and red monkeys, it depends on where you live.
25 million safe seat voters will not see a contest, says Society.
Names of 382 MPs ‘elected for life’ published.
Pack away the rosettes, call back the canvassers, and crack open the champagne.
As the starter’s pistol is fired, research from the Electoral Reform Society shows that the election is already over in most of the country, thanks to a system that leaves most seats safe as houses. In large parts of our cities, and in whole counties, the winner could be announced today.
These numbers represent a ‘conservative’ estimate, as fewer than half of the remaining seats will likely change hands on May 6th.
The Society has now published the names of the new residents of Britain’s ‘Safe parliament’. They argue this makes a nonsense of the idea of a ‘general’ election in which all electors can have their say: they have called for a radical overhaul to our Victorian voting system so that 2010 might prove our last ‘Broken Election’
Dr Ken Ritchie, Chief Executive of the Electoral Reform Society said:
“A hearty congratulations to all our new MPs for a hard fought campaign. Having won the backing of their party members, they can now pack their bags for Westminster.
“These winners will take their seats in Britain’s Safe Parliament. Voters will never be able to boot these MPs out under our present system. Most will leave office on conditions of their own choosing after careers measuring into decades. They are likely to include our future Prime Ministers, our future leaders of the opposition, and all the great office holders of state. They form a class of MPs that are, quite simply, elected for life.
“2010 offers a tale of two elections – and two electorates. One that matters, and one that doesn’t. And for over 25 Million of us, who just happen to live in safe seats, this contest is already over.
“The Expenses crisis awakened people to the inability of ordinary voters to hold these people to account. And for any naive enough to think the crisis might trigger a political earthquake, remember these seats are earthquake-proof thanks to our antique voting system.
http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/news.php?ex=0&a...
It's a waste of time even if you believe in the system.
25 million safe seat voters will not see a contest, says Society.
Names of 382 MPs ‘elected for life’ published.
Pack away the rosettes, call back the canvassers, and crack open the champagne.
As the starter’s pistol is fired, research from the Electoral Reform Society shows that the election is already over in most of the country, thanks to a system that leaves most seats safe as houses. In large parts of our cities, and in whole counties, the winner could be announced today.
These numbers represent a ‘conservative’ estimate, as fewer than half of the remaining seats will likely change hands on May 6th.
The Society has now published the names of the new residents of Britain’s ‘Safe parliament’. They argue this makes a nonsense of the idea of a ‘general’ election in which all electors can have their say: they have called for a radical overhaul to our Victorian voting system so that 2010 might prove our last ‘Broken Election’
Dr Ken Ritchie, Chief Executive of the Electoral Reform Society said:
“A hearty congratulations to all our new MPs for a hard fought campaign. Having won the backing of their party members, they can now pack their bags for Westminster.
“These winners will take their seats in Britain’s Safe Parliament. Voters will never be able to boot these MPs out under our present system. Most will leave office on conditions of their own choosing after careers measuring into decades. They are likely to include our future Prime Ministers, our future leaders of the opposition, and all the great office holders of state. They form a class of MPs that are, quite simply, elected for life.
“2010 offers a tale of two elections – and two electorates. One that matters, and one that doesn’t. And for over 25 Million of us, who just happen to live in safe seats, this contest is already over.
“The Expenses crisis awakened people to the inability of ordinary voters to hold these people to account. And for any naive enough to think the crisis might trigger a political earthquake, remember these seats are earthquake-proof thanks to our antique voting system.
http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/news.php?ex=0&a...
It's a waste of time even if you believe in the system.
st_files said:
Why do people keep saying that a vote for a party other than Conservative or Labour is a waste??? Surely this is the essense of democracy?? If everyone acually voted for the party whose policies they most identified with, instead of sticking with the big two, then maybe things would change!
In an ideal world what you say could happen but in reality, for this election the largest party will be either Labour or Conservative so It makes sense to vote according to which of them you want more.That does not necessarily mean voting for the party you like, it might mean voting tactically to get rid of/avoid electing the one you don't like.
If you want to make a protest vote by voting UKIP, BNP, Scottish Numpty Party etc it is better to do that at local rather than general elections.
Pooh said:
st_files said:
Why do people keep saying that a vote for a party other than Conservative or Labour is a waste??? Surely this is the essense of democracy?? If everyone acually voted for the party whose policies they most identified with, instead of sticking with the big two, then maybe things would change!
In an ideal world what you say could happen but in reality, for this election the largest party will be either Labour or Conservative so It makes sense to vote according to which of them you want more.That does not necessarily mean voting for the party you like, it might mean voting tactically to get rid of/avoid electing the one you don't like.
If you want to make a protest vote by voting UKIP, BNP, Scottish Numpty Party etc it is better to do that at local rather than general elections.
st_files said:
Pooh said:
st_files said:
Why do people keep saying that a vote for a party other than Conservative or Labour is a waste??? Surely this is the essense of democracy?? If everyone acually voted for the party whose policies they most identified with, instead of sticking with the big two, then maybe things would change!
In an ideal world what you say could happen but in reality, for this election the largest party will be either Labour or Conservative so It makes sense to vote according to which of them you want more.That does not necessarily mean voting for the party you like, it might mean voting tactically to get rid of/avoid electing the one you don't like.
If you want to make a protest vote by voting UKIP, BNP, Scottish Numpty Party etc it is better to do that at local rather than general elections.
st_files said:
Pooh said:
st_files said:
Why do people keep saying that a vote for a party other than Conservative or Labour is a waste??? Surely this is the essense of democracy?? If everyone acually voted for the party whose policies they most identified with, instead of sticking with the big two, then maybe things would change!
In an ideal world what you say could happen but in reality, for this election the largest party will be either Labour or Conservative so It makes sense to vote according to which of them you want more.That does not necessarily mean voting for the party you like, it might mean voting tactically to get rid of/avoid electing the one you don't like.
If you want to make a protest vote by voting UKIP, BNP, Scottish Numpty Party etc it is better to do that at local rather than general elections.
Conservatives could actually end up with more votes, but still lose.
Now that is a fooked up system.
They talk about a future fair for all, well how about every single vote carries the same weight and importance.
Pooh said:
st_files said:
Pooh said:
st_files said:
Why do people keep saying that a vote for a party other than Conservative or Labour is a waste??? Surely this is the essense of democracy?? If everyone acually voted for the party whose policies they most identified with, instead of sticking with the big two, then maybe things would change!
In an ideal world what you say could happen but in reality, for this election the largest party will be either Labour or Conservative so It makes sense to vote according to which of them you want more.That does not necessarily mean voting for the party you like, it might mean voting tactically to get rid of/avoid electing the one you don't like.
If you want to make a protest vote by voting UKIP, BNP, Scottish Numpty Party etc it is better to do that at local rather than general elections.
st_files said:
Pooh said:
st_files said:
Pooh said:
st_files said:
Why do people keep saying that a vote for a party other than Conservative or Labour is a waste??? Surely this is the essense of democracy?? If everyone acually voted for the party whose policies they most identified with, instead of sticking with the big two, then maybe things would change!
In an ideal world what you say could happen but in reality, for this election the largest party will be either Labour or Conservative so It makes sense to vote according to which of them you want more.That does not necessarily mean voting for the party you like, it might mean voting tactically to get rid of/avoid electing the one you don't like.
If you want to make a protest vote by voting UKIP, BNP, Scottish Numpty Party etc it is better to do that at local rather than general elections.
st_files said:
Why do people keep saying that a vote for a party other than Conservative or Labour is a waste??? Surely this is the essense of democracy?? If everyone acually voted for the party whose policies they most identified with, instead of sticking with the big two, then maybe things would change!
Because we live in an age of consumerism and instant gratification, "have it all etc".It's then humbling to find out you personally can't decide who gets to be the government.
st_files said:
Why do people keep saying that a vote for a party other than Conservative or Labour is a waste??? Surely this is the essense of democracy?? If everyone acually voted for the party whose policies they most identified with, instead of sticking with the big two, then maybe things would change!
If you waste your vote the wrong lizard might get in.Your vote is likely to be wasted anyway. I live in a Conservative constituency with a massive Conservative majority. I'll vote Conservative - because I do - but it's not making any difference. Although we have new boundaries this year and, since it might make a difference, I certainly won't forget to vote!
If you are in a very safe Labour constituency a vote for or against Labour is likely to be wasted in the same way.
In marginal constituencies - and there are some - your vote will count. In a marginal IF you vote for a minority party it is likely the incumbent party will stay in power.
Think about whether or not that is what you want.
If it isn't? You have to vote tactically.
Bummer. But that's the way it works.
Well if you look at it that way, the only way that your vote can not be a wasted vote is if you vote for the winning party and they win by only 1 vote.
Any other conclusion and your vote will have made no difference to the outcome whatsoever.
Personally, I don't want either the tories or labour, they're both lying to me, and I don't want more liars representing me, so my vote will go elsewhere.
My hope is that a significant proportion of people feel the same way and the BNP/Greens split the left vote and the UKIP split the right vote, the end result being a hung parlament split between 4-5 parties, where no-one can get a majority, not even with a coalition.
I keep seeing the argument that a hung parlament will give a weak goverment. Why is that a problem? For the last 13 years, we have had a strong goverment. Strong goverments take the piss out of the electorate. Strong goverments can saddle the country with huge debts, strong goverment can push through things like the Lisbon Treaty, Smoking Ban, Digital Economy Act, Hunting Ban and so on and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.
Imagine trying to get any of those acts through a hung parlament?
The only way any significant acts would ever get through parlament is by holding referendums. With the way parlament has conducted itself over the last 13 years, I would rather have a goverment that can't tie its own shoelaces without a deadlock, than one that can do what the hell it wants with abandon.
Any other conclusion and your vote will have made no difference to the outcome whatsoever.
Personally, I don't want either the tories or labour, they're both lying to me, and I don't want more liars representing me, so my vote will go elsewhere.
My hope is that a significant proportion of people feel the same way and the BNP/Greens split the left vote and the UKIP split the right vote, the end result being a hung parlament split between 4-5 parties, where no-one can get a majority, not even with a coalition.
I keep seeing the argument that a hung parlament will give a weak goverment. Why is that a problem? For the last 13 years, we have had a strong goverment. Strong goverments take the piss out of the electorate. Strong goverments can saddle the country with huge debts, strong goverment can push through things like the Lisbon Treaty, Smoking Ban, Digital Economy Act, Hunting Ban and so on and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.
Imagine trying to get any of those acts through a hung parlament?
The only way any significant acts would ever get through parlament is by holding referendums. With the way parlament has conducted itself over the last 13 years, I would rather have a goverment that can't tie its own shoelaces without a deadlock, than one that can do what the hell it wants with abandon.
Edited by gamefreaks on Monday 12th April 16:33
Don said:
st_files said:
Why do people keep saying that a vote for a party other than Conservative or Labour is a waste??? Surely this is the essense of democracy?? If everyone acually voted for the party whose policies they most identified with, instead of sticking with the big two, then maybe things would change!
If you waste your vote the wrong lizard might get in.Your vote is likely to be wasted anyway. I live in a Conservative constituency with a massive Conservative majority. I'll vote Conservative - because I do - but it's not making any difference. Although we have new boundaries this year and, since it might make a difference, I certainly won't forget to vote!
If you are in a very safe Labour constituency a vote for or against Labour is likely to be wasted in the same way.
In marginal constituencies - and there are some - your vote will count. In a marginal IF you vote for a minority party it is likely the incumbent party will stay in power.
Think about whether or not that is what you want.
If it isn't? You have to vote tactically.
Bummer. But that's the way it works.
Pooh said:
st_files said:
Pooh said:
st_files said:
Why do people keep saying that a vote for a party other than Conservative or Labour is a waste??? Surely this is the essense of democracy?? If everyone acually voted for the party whose policies they most identified with, instead of sticking with the big two, then maybe things would change!
In an ideal world what you say could happen but in reality, for this election the largest party will be either Labour or Conservative so It makes sense to vote according to which of them you want more.That does not necessarily mean voting for the party you like, it might mean voting tactically to get rid of/avoid electing the one you don't like.
If you want to make a protest vote by voting UKIP, BNP, Scottish Numpty Party etc it is better to do that at local rather than general elections.
I didn't vote for that tossbag
gamefreaks said:
Well if you look at it that way, the only way that your vote can not be a wasted vote is if you vote for the winning party and they win by only 1 vote.
Any other conclusion and your vote will have made no difference to the outcome whatsoever.
Personally, I don't want either the tories or labour, they're both lying to me, and I don't want more liars representing me, so my vote will go elsewhere.
My hope is that a significant proportion of people feel the same way and the BNP/Greens split the left vote and the UKIP split the right vote, the end result being a hung parlament split between 4-5 parties, where no-one can get a majority, not even with a coalition.
I keep seeing the argument that a hung parlament will give a weak goverment. Why is that a problem? For the last 13 years, we have had a strong goverment. Strong goverments take the piss out of the electorate. Strong goverments can saddle the country with huge debts, strong goverment can push through things like the Lisbon Treaty, Smoking Ban, Digital Economy Act, Hunting Ban and so on and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.
Imagine trying to get any of those acts through a hung parlament?
The only way any significant acts would ever get through parlament is by holding referendums. With the way parlament has conducted itself over the last 13 years, I would rather have a goverment that can't tie its own shoelaces without a deadlock, than one that can do what the hell it wants with abandon.
While I would like this to be the case unfortunately we don't have much chance of a weak government, or a hung parliment retaining the confidence of the markets to repay the obscene amount of money the current idiots have pissed up the wall.Any other conclusion and your vote will have made no difference to the outcome whatsoever.
Personally, I don't want either the tories or labour, they're both lying to me, and I don't want more liars representing me, so my vote will go elsewhere.
My hope is that a significant proportion of people feel the same way and the BNP/Greens split the left vote and the UKIP split the right vote, the end result being a hung parlament split between 4-5 parties, where no-one can get a majority, not even with a coalition.
I keep seeing the argument that a hung parlament will give a weak goverment. Why is that a problem? For the last 13 years, we have had a strong goverment. Strong goverments take the piss out of the electorate. Strong goverments can saddle the country with huge debts, strong goverment can push through things like the Lisbon Treaty, Smoking Ban, Digital Economy Act, Hunting Ban and so on and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.
Imagine trying to get any of those acts through a hung parlament?
The only way any significant acts would ever get through parlament is by holding referendums. With the way parlament has conducted itself over the last 13 years, I would rather have a goverment that can't tie its own shoelaces without a deadlock, than one that can do what the hell it wants with abandon.
Edited by gamefreaks on Monday 12th April 16:33
In a hung parliment the chances are high we would have our credit rating downgraded which would cripple us even more.
I have never voted as I dislike our brand of autocracy but will be swallowing my principles and voting Tory. Just as I would accept a rescue from the middle of the Ocean from Bin Laden ( not that the possibility of a $25 million reward wouldn't cross my mind)
st_files said:
Don said:
st_files said:
Why do people keep saying that a vote for a party other than Conservative or Labour is a waste??? Surely this is the essense of democracy?? If everyone acually voted for the party whose policies they most identified with, instead of sticking with the big two, then maybe things would change!
If you waste your vote the wrong lizard might get in.Your vote is likely to be wasted anyway. I live in a Conservative constituency with a massive Conservative majority. I'll vote Conservative - because I do - but it's not making any difference. Although we have new boundaries this year and, since it might make a difference, I certainly won't forget to vote!
If you are in a very safe Labour constituency a vote for or against Labour is likely to be wasted in the same way.
In marginal constituencies - and there are some - your vote will count. In a marginal IF you vote for a minority party it is likely the incumbent party will stay in power.
Think about whether or not that is what you want.
If it isn't? You have to vote tactically.
Bummer. But that's the way it works.
So go along and vote either for who you want to win. OR whoever you think most likely to oust your particular thieving bugger. OR even go along and draw a picture of a willy on the voting form for a giggle.
It's not like it costs you very much to do it and, you never know, maybe you'll be, electorally speaking, smacking your thieving bugger in the nuts.
Enjoy your democratic experience! I know I will. Even if it's note very likely to make any difference where I am...
stitched said:
gamefreaks said:
Well if you look at it that way... <snip>
While I would like this to be the case unfortunately we don't have much chance of a weak government, or a hung parliment retaining the confidence of the markets to repay the obscene amount of money the current idiots have pissed up the wall.In a hung parliment the chances are high we would have our credit rating downgraded which would cripple us even more.
I have never voted as I dislike our brand of autocracy but will be swallowing my principles and voting Tory. Just as I would accept a rescue from the middle of the Ocean from Bin Laden ( not that the possibility of a $25 million reward wouldn't cross my mind)
To put things into perspective, the NHS will cost £110bn in 2010. We could turn off the NHS completely and still have a deficit of £60bn per year. Thats an additional £60bn on top of the existing debt every year.
The cuts that the Tories and Labour are squabbling over are a drop in the ocean. Its like trying to stop the Titanic sinking with duct tape.
Also, don't forget we already have high taxes. Raising them higher won't raise much more money because people who can afford to will bugger off elsewhere and paupers like me will simply spend less because I have less in the first place. The government won't actually get anymore money from me, when you add up taxes and stuff like petrol duty, vat, tobacco tax etc the government already get the lions share of what I earn, raises in taxes will just mean they get roughly the same proportion of my earnings, just in larger dollops.
What difference does it make?
Edited: Cleaned up the typos. It's hard to type with clenched fists and tears of rage streaming over the keyboard :-)
Edited by gamefreaks on Monday 12th April 17:23
Slightly O/T but this is a fairly good site (almost certainly a repost but what the hell) ... are you voting for the party you agree with?
http://www.votematch.org.uk/
http://www.votematch.org.uk/
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