UK Poverty - serious discussion.
Discussion
I have just, very oddly I admit, watched How The Other Half Live and it has really made me think.
I don't want to sound stereotypical "Ohh I had no idea", but who here, other than those who are in the situation faced here, can say they really know about the levels of poverty experienced by some people in this country? I can't, I know people struggle, and that there are people in this country who are badly off, but seeing this really showed me how tough it actually is, having to refuse her 8 year old daughter a £2 board game in a charity shop. Just think how easily we spend £2.
Now for the bit most relevant, it is often said on here, and in many cases I agree, that one can work ones way out of this kind of poverty; but clearly this lady is incredibly intelligent, and it has got her nowhere. It may be that she claims all sorts of benefits that the program glossed over, but I doubt it seeing as she is working in some kind of job.
I have always thought that as a high earner, I pay a large sum of money in tax, and haven't begrudged it as such, but have always been left wanting a little more shall we say. The thing that really gets me, and I don't want this to sound like 'benefit thieving scum' rant that I have seen all to often on here, but I don't understand how, especially with a Labour Government, this can still be allowed to happen.
I was lucky enough to be born into a family with wealth, and luckier still to receive an education that has meant I have been able to add to my personal wealth so seeing in the program, how much it obviously meant to the impoverished family being helped, and just how special even the gift of a £50 guitar was really struck a chord. Other than give money to charities that specialise in these areas, what realistic things can one do on an individual scale to help eradicate this, and what could or should be changed at national level to help?
Please don't see this as a boast, and please don't let this slip into a 'Labour scum bashing' thread either.
I don't want to sound stereotypical "Ohh I had no idea", but who here, other than those who are in the situation faced here, can say they really know about the levels of poverty experienced by some people in this country? I can't, I know people struggle, and that there are people in this country who are badly off, but seeing this really showed me how tough it actually is, having to refuse her 8 year old daughter a £2 board game in a charity shop. Just think how easily we spend £2.
Now for the bit most relevant, it is often said on here, and in many cases I agree, that one can work ones way out of this kind of poverty; but clearly this lady is incredibly intelligent, and it has got her nowhere. It may be that she claims all sorts of benefits that the program glossed over, but I doubt it seeing as she is working in some kind of job.
I have always thought that as a high earner, I pay a large sum of money in tax, and haven't begrudged it as such, but have always been left wanting a little more shall we say. The thing that really gets me, and I don't want this to sound like 'benefit thieving scum' rant that I have seen all to often on here, but I don't understand how, especially with a Labour Government, this can still be allowed to happen.
I was lucky enough to be born into a family with wealth, and luckier still to receive an education that has meant I have been able to add to my personal wealth so seeing in the program, how much it obviously meant to the impoverished family being helped, and just how special even the gift of a £50 guitar was really struck a chord. Other than give money to charities that specialise in these areas, what realistic things can one do on an individual scale to help eradicate this, and what could or should be changed at national level to help?
Please don't see this as a boast, and please don't let this slip into a 'Labour scum bashing' thread either.
I feel I've touched upon it.
Having just £5 in your pocket and having to choose between heating or feeding the kids.
Or deliberately not feeding the elec meter all week because you wnt to make sure you have enough to make the place habitable for when the kids come on the wkend.
Its f
king st illl tell you, the sooner I make my millions the happier ill be.
My soloution to my problems has been to have my business, and things improve every day. So, even without help people can do it. With help you may as well roll out the red carpet for em unless they're a complete moron that doesn't deserve help anyway
Having just £5 in your pocket and having to choose between heating or feeding the kids.
Or deliberately not feeding the elec meter all week because you wnt to make sure you have enough to make the place habitable for when the kids come on the wkend.
Its f
king st illl tell you, the sooner I make my millions the happier ill be. My soloution to my problems has been to have my business, and things improve every day. So, even without help people can do it. With help you may as well roll out the red carpet for em unless they're a complete moron that doesn't deserve help anyway
How about volunteering? It really is win win. You get to feel like you are helping out and giving back, a desperate organisation gets another pair of hands and...well someone has life made a bit easier at the end.
They are not all handing out soup at a homeless kitchen. I have been part of a big brother program for wayward boys. I am always tinkering with cars and my latest monster (lotus 23 clone with wrx...if only it would run again!!!) had no less than four young gents help out. They love it and its really good fun. I get a bit down hearing about their tales of hardship but its not about how I feel.
I usually stick to non human charities though and am a foster home for poor dogs who have found themselves on death row.
Both situations bring a great amount of joy to everyone involved and its probably the only thing that I am actually proud of in my life.
Do it. You wont be upset. Google will tell you what is near to you.
They are not all handing out soup at a homeless kitchen. I have been part of a big brother program for wayward boys. I am always tinkering with cars and my latest monster (lotus 23 clone with wrx...if only it would run again!!!) had no less than four young gents help out. They love it and its really good fun. I get a bit down hearing about their tales of hardship but its not about how I feel.
I usually stick to non human charities though and am a foster home for poor dogs who have found themselves on death row.
Both situations bring a great amount of joy to everyone involved and its probably the only thing that I am actually proud of in my life.
Do it. You wont be upset. Google will tell you what is near to you.
Mobile Chicane said:
I think the problem facing the UK is how to match 'expectations' with 'means'.
When was the last time anyone heard the phrase "Cut your coat according to your cloth"?
Doesn't happen. Hence the mess this country is in.
I think you are right. We now expect to have it all, even if we have nothing. These days:When was the last time anyone heard the phrase "Cut your coat according to your cloth"?
Doesn't happen. Hence the mess this country is in.
Who takes second hand clothes (or shoes) for their kids unless they are virtually new? Our neighbours kids went to school in wellies if they were the last up in the morning.
Who accepts old furniture because it does the job rather than looking the part? Part of being in a community was the way furniture was recycled. Nobody EVER turned dowen a piece of furiniture when we were kids.
Who delivers papers and does three rounds a week (our pensioner delivery bloke does, and cuts the grass at the pub, and gets up at 5am to peel spuds at the local chippy before his paper round which says something)
But who expects to eat out or have takeaway?
Who expects to have days out and run a car?
When I was a kid in pretty poor circumstances the answers were obvious, I think less so now.
Back to the original post, I too am shocked that people are in that sort of poverty and likely to remain there. But if you really look around you can see the system isn't geared up for them to anything else. Those in controol of the areas which control our lives: politics, the law, financials, and the media are still coming from the 'old school' in the main, and those who don't quickly pull up the rope ladder. I came from a council estate and a back street comp. My kids are both professionals who went to good schools and I hope their kids will do even better because I have realised that success if 50% what you know, and 50% who you know. Mixing with the right people makes the difference between getting half of half a chance and getting no chance. And I don't see a chance purely as a place on some government scheme. I mean a recommendation for an interview, a bit of work experience in the right place, an inside track on what to do and say in their first professional job, a deposit on a flat or house, a guarantor for a loan, some decent career advice, a couple of hundred quid when the going gets really tough. All things I gave my kids before I pulled up the rope ladder but which my parents couldn't give me.
In summary, life is what you make it but a key part is the right opportunities and those tend to be kept and closely guraded for people who are like us.
I agree that expectations have risen too high for some people, but nobody should have to 'expect' to be able to put food on the table and clothes on their back, it should be a given.
Tonker, some of the things you say about her are slightly exaggerated. How can 'we' let this clearly bright, and possible wealth creator, not get any sort of job that uses her, obviously very good, brain and skills.
Tonker, some of the things you say about her are slightly exaggerated. How can 'we' let this clearly bright, and possible wealth creator, not get any sort of job that uses her, obviously very good, brain and skills.
Rufus said:
I have just, very oddly I admit, watched How The Other Half Live and it has really made me think.
I don't want to sound stereotypical "Ohh I had no idea", but who here, other than those who are in the situation faced here, can say they really know about the levels of poverty experienced by some people in this country? I can't, I know people struggle, and that there are people in this country who are badly off, but seeing this really showed me how tough it actually is, having to refuse her 8 year old daughter a £2 board game in a charity shop. Just think how easily we spend £2.
Now for the bit most relevant, it is often said on here, and in many cases I agree, that one can work ones way out of this kind of poverty; but clearly this lady is incredibly intelligent, and it has got her nowhere. It may be that she claims all sorts of benefits that the program glossed over, but I doubt it seeing as she is working in some kind of job.
I have always thought that as a high earner, I pay a large sum of money in tax, and haven't begrudged it as such, but have always been left wanting a little more shall we say. The thing that really gets me, and I don't want this to sound like 'benefit thieving scum' rant that I have seen all to often on here, but I don't understand how, especially with a Labour Government, this can still be allowed to happen.
I was lucky enough to be born into a family with wealth, and luckier still to receive an education that has meant I have been able to add to my personal wealth so seeing in the program, how much it obviously meant to the impoverished family being helped, and just how special even the gift of a £50 guitar was really struck a chord. Other than give money to charities that specialise in these areas, what realistic things can one do on an individual scale to help eradicate this, and what could or should be changed at national level to help?
Please don't see this as a boast, and please don't let this slip into a 'Labour scum bashing' thread either.
I grew up in what many would consider as poverty.I don't want to sound stereotypical "Ohh I had no idea", but who here, other than those who are in the situation faced here, can say they really know about the levels of poverty experienced by some people in this country? I can't, I know people struggle, and that there are people in this country who are badly off, but seeing this really showed me how tough it actually is, having to refuse her 8 year old daughter a £2 board game in a charity shop. Just think how easily we spend £2.
Now for the bit most relevant, it is often said on here, and in many cases I agree, that one can work ones way out of this kind of poverty; but clearly this lady is incredibly intelligent, and it has got her nowhere. It may be that she claims all sorts of benefits that the program glossed over, but I doubt it seeing as she is working in some kind of job.
I have always thought that as a high earner, I pay a large sum of money in tax, and haven't begrudged it as such, but have always been left wanting a little more shall we say. The thing that really gets me, and I don't want this to sound like 'benefit thieving scum' rant that I have seen all to often on here, but I don't understand how, especially with a Labour Government, this can still be allowed to happen.
I was lucky enough to be born into a family with wealth, and luckier still to receive an education that has meant I have been able to add to my personal wealth so seeing in the program, how much it obviously meant to the impoverished family being helped, and just how special even the gift of a £50 guitar was really struck a chord. Other than give money to charities that specialise in these areas, what realistic things can one do on an individual scale to help eradicate this, and what could or should be changed at national level to help?
Please don't see this as a boast, and please don't let this slip into a 'Labour scum bashing' thread either.
you just get on with it, accept that you cant have many products and experiences and get on with making your life better. taking advantages of free services such as the library is key.
Rufus said:
I agree that expectations have risen too high for some people, but nobody should have to 'expect' to be able to put food on the table and clothes on their back, it should be a given.
Tonker, some of the things you say about her are slightly exaggerated. How can 'we' let this clearly bright, and possible wealth creator, not get any sort of job that uses her, obviously very good, brain and skills.
Its a capitalist society. If she has what it takes and works harder and smarter than her peers she will get there. Survival of the fittest im afraid. Tonker, some of the things you say about her are slightly exaggerated. How can 'we' let this clearly bright, and possible wealth creator, not get any sort of job that uses her, obviously very good, brain and skills.
amir_j said:
I grew up in what many would consider as poverty.
you just get on with it, accept that you cant have many products and experiences and get on with making your life better. taking advantages of free services such as the library is key.
Exactly, people in the UK tend to forget just how much free education there is laying around. I guess the problem is motivation. These days we hear of people who make decent livings out of the benefits system and then scratch our heads wondering why they aren't motivated to do anything.you just get on with it, accept that you cant have many products and experiences and get on with making your life better. taking advantages of free services such as the library is key.
musclecarmad said:
No, I don't think the UK is in poverty at all. Infact I think people are given too much.
Free healthcare, free prescriptions, free benefits, free council tax, free everything and a pension when you get to 60 or 65.
On minimum wage call it £5.75 per hour you could do a 45 hour week very easily that is over £1,000 per month. If you can't live on that then you are hopeless with your finances. £300 of that would get you a room in a shared house with bills included and you have a lot spare each month.
Now, these people that bang out kids and whinge well, personally, i think it's their fault. If you can't afford kids, don't have them. If you do though you get free education for them, can clothe them at asda for next to nothing and you get child benefit and child tax credit and working tax credit and allsorts of other allowances and reliefs.
I pay too much tax and I have studied hard since I was about 10 years old and worked my socks off and work most weekends and never stop working. These lazy cows don't deserve anything and there SHOULD be a marked difference in lifestyles between the people who don't work and the people that do.
People that don't work shouldn't be able to afford cars and holidays and life's luxuries as they don't deserve it.
once caveat to add is that if you are severely disabled such as having no legs or arms and you cannot physically work then you should be cared for. However, I have no sympathy for about 85% of people who don't work at the moment as they have 'lazy syndrome' etc.
You clearly haven't even looked at the programs first two minutes and your post would be more suited to the "blood sucking leech" thread.Free healthcare, free prescriptions, free benefits, free council tax, free everything and a pension when you get to 60 or 65.
On minimum wage call it £5.75 per hour you could do a 45 hour week very easily that is over £1,000 per month. If you can't live on that then you are hopeless with your finances. £300 of that would get you a room in a shared house with bills included and you have a lot spare each month.
Now, these people that bang out kids and whinge well, personally, i think it's their fault. If you can't afford kids, don't have them. If you do though you get free education for them, can clothe them at asda for next to nothing and you get child benefit and child tax credit and working tax credit and allsorts of other allowances and reliefs.
I pay too much tax and I have studied hard since I was about 10 years old and worked my socks off and work most weekends and never stop working. These lazy cows don't deserve anything and there SHOULD be a marked difference in lifestyles between the people who don't work and the people that do.
People that don't work shouldn't be able to afford cars and holidays and life's luxuries as they don't deserve it.
once caveat to add is that if you are severely disabled such as having no legs or arms and you cannot physically work then you should be cared for. However, I have no sympathy for about 85% of people who don't work at the moment as they have 'lazy syndrome' etc.
Rufus said:
You clearly haven't even looked at the programs first two minutes and your post would be more suited to the "blood sucking leech" thread.
I commend you for attempting this discussion, but fear that starting this discussion on PH is like protesting about animal welfare issues at a cock fight.HundredthIdiot said:
Rufus said:
You clearly haven't even looked at the programs first two minutes and your post would be more suited to the "blood sucking leech" thread.
I commend you for attempting this discussion, but fear that starting this discussion on PH is like protesting about animal welfare issues at a cock fight.Rufus said:
I knew it was a risk but assumed that given the apparent number of high earners, I thought there would be enough people capable of holding down a serious discussion on an important issue. As we know however, assume makes an ass out of you and me.
I've read that 1/4 of homeless people are ex-armed forces and many others have mental health issues, drug addiction and/or a history of abuse as children (presumably there is a lot of overlap between these categories).I find this very sad.
Of course poor people should just HTFU and work harder.
HundredthIdiot said:
Rufus said:
I knew it was a risk but assumed that given the apparent number of high earners, I thought there would be enough people capable of holding down a serious discussion on an important issue. As we know however, assume makes an ass out of you and me.
I've read that 1/4 of homeless people are ex-armed forces and many others have mental health issues, drug addiction and/or a history of abuse as children (presumably there is a lot of overlap between these categories).I find this very sad.
Of course poor people should just HTFU and work harder.
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