classic impreza vs new evo?

[Cookievts]

hi all

i appreciate that the evo vs impreza thing has been done to death but after talking to a mate in the pub i was wondering how much would it take to bring a bog standard classic impreza sti up to the level of say a evo 9 fq360mr. im hooked on the sound of the subarus boxer engine but i want the performance of the evo for less than the list price of a good condition second hand fq360. am i dreaming or is it possible to build a reliable classic impreza with the handeling and the pace of the evo?

cheers

[ScoobieWRX]

Yeah no probs. How much have you got to spend??

[sebhaque]

Spending £3-4000 on some decent stage kits would probably bring the classic Impreza to the same power as the 360... plus the handling advantages so it'd have one over. However mr insurance man might not take kindly to the mods, and you'd have to get a decent, not-so-thrashed example of a classic, which are getting rarer by the minute.

[SmoothRB]

Must be a very similar power to weight ratio after just an intake, 'zaust, and remap?

[ScoobieWRX]

£3-4K will sort you out with a forged rods and pistons rebuild and some ancilliaries like an FMIC, induction, injectors, turbo and exhaust, but you still need a remap to make it all happen. £5K gets you a quality rebuild, ancilliaries, injectors/turbo and remap. That will net you 350-400whp using the std ECU and an ESL MAFLESS remap.

If you buy a classic V2 STi that comes with a CDB you have the basis for a truly great car. They are lightweight compared to later classics and newage cars, and with that kind of horsepower it will be epic in a straight line.

The only thing is then you've got to stop it and get around corners, so figure in another £3-5K for that. Only then will you be blowing FQ400's away in a straight line and leaving them well behind on the twisties, provided you can drive

What people don't realise is that once they've spent all that money making it go really well there are still other things to do. That evo might not be as quick as you now on the straight but i bet it will get around corners pretty damn well and leave you for dust down the twisties.

My advice would be to initially spend money on getting the car to stop and handle properly, then look at engine mods. Then you'll find you're getting around corners much quicker on std power than more powerful cars that haven't had money spent on proper brake and handling mods.

[jasemac]

I have a std version 2 wrx that will trounce an evo...I cheated though n put the running gear in Murtaya ( 2 seater Subaru powered 4wd kit) 850 kilos..0-60 in 3.5...lol
On a serious note above posts spot on easily done..stroker kit, mapping, brakes etc
My plan is stroker kit in the Murtaya!

[ScoobieWRX]

That's between 400-500Kg less than the std v2 WRX. Even at std power of 240bhp it's going to be pretty quick. If you change the injectors for 440's and add an FMIC and induction, together with the std turbo you should be good for 300-320 and that's within safety margins for your internals. It's an open deck block which you could get converted but it's probably easier to get an STi lump with the CDB and stroke that instead making the engine burstproof at least. The gearbox is your weak point though and won't take much more than 320-330bhp. Unfortunately they really are made of chocolate.

I like the Murtaya, it's a cracking piece of kit and perfect for doing sprints, hillclimbs, Time Attack

I've been following their progress for a while now and always thought that's the kind of Scooby powered fun i'd like. Personally speaking i would dismantle my STi powered sportwagon and use that as the donor. It makes about 350-360bhp and it's got potential right now for 400bhp with the 20G that's on it now. That would be fun in a Murtaya. Got any pics??

Nice one

[rhinochopig]

sebhaque said:

Spending £3-4000 on some decent stage kits would probably bring the classic Impreza to the same power as the 360... plus the handling advantages so it'd have one over. However mr insurance man might not take kindly to the mods, and you'd have to get a decent, not-so-thrashed example of a classic, which are getting rarer by the minute.

I disagree, the EVO is the better handling of the two vehicles for a balls out run across a B road. The scooby is a nicer all round proposition though.

OP I think you'd be wasting your time with this project. If you want a scooby, buy a nice P1 and enjoy it for what it is, a sublime B road car which can be used every day. The power difference isn't as noticeable as you'd think on a B road anyway. Power delivery, weight of the car, handling characteristics are all more important than raw power anyway. An evo will be slightly quicker, but not by much, and you'll have just as much fun in a P1.

To put what I'm saying into context, My EVO VIIRS, which is virtually standard (except for uprated dampers) and puts out circa 300bhp, is plenty fast enough on a B road. My last car did 0-100 in 9 seconds and that was too fast for B road use really. My next outlay is not on power mods, but on a set of very trick EXE TC dampers.

[Cookievts]

your probably right about doing brakes, and handling mods before adding power upgrades, i never really saw the appeal of 4wd until a friend took me out in his scooby and it just stuck to the road and destroyed corners and straights effortlessly, i was looking for a 6 cyl e36 to tackle the local b roads in but after the passenger ride im in love anybody fancy swapping their scoob for a standard, much loved, unchavved, Citroen Saxo VTS or am i restricted to the mcdonalds car park massive as potential 'customers'

[jasemac]

ScoobieWRX said:

That's between 400-500Kg less than the std v2 WRX. Even at std power of 240bhp it's going to be pretty quick. If you change the injectors for 440's and add an FMIC and induction, together with the std turbo you should be good for 300-320 and that's within safety margins for your internals. It's an open deck block which you could get converted but it's probably easier to get an STi lump with the CDB and stroke that instead making the engine burstproof at least. The gearbox is your weak point though and won't take much more than 320-330bhp. Unfortunately they really are made of chocolate.

I like the Murtaya, it's a cracking piece of kit and perfect for doing sprints, hillclimbs, Time Attack

I've been following their progress for a while now and always thought that's the kind of Scooby powered fun i'd like. Personally speaking i would dismantle my STi powered sportwagon and use that as the donor. It makes about 350-360bhp and it's got potential right now for 400bhp with the 20G that's on it now. That would be fun in a Murtaya. Got any pics??

Nice one

Got 440's vf28 hybrid 90 degree, rcm pullys, paddle clutch/light flywheel, sti ra gbox and 180 diff



I sell the kits if ya want one...

[sebhaque]

rhinochopig said:

sebhaque said:

Spending £3-4000 on some decent stage kits would probably bring the classic Impreza to the same power as the 360... plus the handling advantages so it'd have one over. However mr insurance man might not take kindly to the mods, and you'd have to get a decent, not-so-thrashed example of a classic, which are getting rarer by the minute.

I disagree, the EVO is the better handling of the two vehicles for a balls out run across a B road. The scooby is a nicer all round proposition though.

OP I think you'd be wasting your time with this project. If you want a scooby, buy a nice P1 and enjoy it for what it is, a sublime B road car which can be used every day. The power difference isn't as noticeable as you'd think on a B road anyway. Power delivery, weight of the car, handling characteristics are all more important than raw power anyway. An evo will be slightly quicker, but not by much, and you'll have just as much fun in a P1.

To put what I'm saying into context, My EVO VIIRS, which is virtually standard (except for uprated dampers) and puts out circa 300bhp, is plenty fast enough on a B road. My last car did 0-100 in 9 seconds and that was too fast for B road use really. My next outlay is not on power mods, but on a set of very trick EXE TC dampers.

Sorry, my post came out in a slightly ambiguous tone. What I meant to say was that spending £3-4000 on the Subaru would probably result in some form of handling tweaks - new suspension, tyres, etc. With that I think it may have one up on a standard Evo - although not having been in either a new Evo or a classic Scoob with 4 grand's worth of mods I'm just singing into the wind here

[rsv gone!]

Can't you just buy a Spec C?

[ScoobieWRX]

jasemac said:

ScoobieWRX said:

That's between 400-500Kg less than the std v2 WRX. Even at std power of 240bhp it's going to be pretty quick. If you change the injectors for 440's and add an FMIC and induction, together with the std turbo you should be good for 300-320 and that's within safety margins for your internals. It's an open deck block which you could get converted but it's probably easier to get an STi lump with the CDB and stroke that instead making the engine burstproof at least. The gearbox is your weak point though and won't take much more than 320-330bhp. Unfortunately they really are made of chocolate.

I like the Murtaya, it's a cracking piece of kit and perfect for doing sprints, hillclimbs, Time Attack

I've been following their progress for a while now and always thought that's the kind of Scooby powered fun i'd like. Personally speaking i would dismantle my STi powered sportwagon and use that as the donor. It makes about 350-360bhp and it's got potential right now for 400bhp with the 20G that's on it now. That would be fun in a Murtaya. Got any pics??

Nice one

Got 440's vf28 hybrid 90 degree, rcm pullys, paddle clutch/light flywheel, sti ra gbox and 180 diff



I sell the kits if ya want one...

SHEEEEEET!! I'm in love again

[jasemac]

Its for sale if the offers right!
Glad ya like it

[ScoobieWRX]

If i had the spare dosh right now it would be going into the shell, and using my own scoob as the donor to cut down on costs but it's all tied up in my house and the business right now so perhaps this year is out but very possibly next.

For someone that wants a super quick trackday come competition weapon, that would be a cracking choice!! It's lovely.

[rhinochopig]

jasemac said:

I have a std version 2 wrx that will trounce an evo...I cheated though n put the running gear in Murtaya ( 2 seater Subaru powered 4wd kit) 850 kilos..0-60 in 3.5...lol
On a serious note above posts spot on easily done..stroker kit, mapping, brakes etc
My plan is stroker kit in the Murtaya!

Maybe not.

http://evo123.net/showthread.php?t=1327

If it hits target weight, you may have some competition

[rhinochopig]

Cookievts said:

your probably right about doing brakes, and handling mods before adding power upgrades, i never really saw the appeal of 4wd until a friend took me out in his scooby and it just stuck to the road and destroyed corners and straights effortlessly, i was looking for a 6 cyl e36 to tackle the local b roads in but after the passenger ride im in love anybody fancy swapping their scoob for a standard, much loved, unchavved, Citroen Saxo VTS or am i restricted to the mcdonalds car park massive as potential 'customers'

If you want a really quick car, for not a lot of money, then buy yourself a 7 style kit car with a bike engine fitted. It will leave any 4WD rally rep - probably murt included for dead on a dry road. If it rains however, you'll be holding up the traffic

If your original preference was a RWD car, something like this may better suit you. Although the rally reps are very quick tools, they are a bit of a sledge hammer to crack a nut. If you don't need four seats and a roof, you'll have more fun in something like a seven or even an Elise. They are just so much more adjustable and delicate when compared to Subarishis.

My old Westfield had a more or less standard (some slight tweaks, but nothing major) Honda Blackbird engine fitted. It would leave the rally reps for dead on both the track and the road. You could pick up something similar now for circa 8k. Performance really is astonishing, plus you get a free sequential gearbox and for a couple of hundred notes a widget that will turn that sequential into a full semi-auto box. Although the straight-line speed is staggering, it's the corning where these cars excel. I recommend you try one before you commit to 4WD.

[SmoothRB]

rhinochopig said:

My old Westfield had a more or less standard (some slight tweaks, but nothing major) Honda Blackbird engine fitted.

Wouldn't a Blackbird be faster?

[GravelBen]

SmoothRB said:

rhinochopig said:

My old Westfield had a more or less standard (some slight tweaks, but nothing major) Honda Blackbird engine fitted.

Wouldn't a Blackbird be faster?

Not around corners.

[jasemac]

My murtaya beat a atom, a lambo murcielago a porsche gt3 (track)a ninja bike, the sister car buried a ktm x bow on track with just 260 bhp, I have raced a few caterfield etc they dont have teh pace 3rd gear upwards.
Out paced an audi r8, a evo 10 modified.
One we helped create packs nearly 400 bhp through a 6 speed tranny..0-150 in one gear..
I have not even tried to imagine what the one being built will do... 600 bhp..