Audi 1.8T Engine in a GTM Libra

[AbusingTheMoog]

Hello,

I read on the GTM ltd. site (before it went offline) that there had been a few (Libras) fitted with Honda engines as well as with an Audi 1.8T engine. Does anyone have any information about these rides? I've come up empty handed time and time again. I'm a little more interested in the Audi engined one(s)if there is anything.

Thanks,
Matt

[Paul Drawmer]

I think there's only one.
Bertram's web site is here:
http://www.b_bakker.dds.nl/index.htm

Drop him a line - his English is very good, almost as good as his car!

Edited by Paul Drawmer on Saturday 17th April 08:28

[AbusingTheMoog]

Thank you very much. I'll have to google translate but this is awesome. Thanks.

-Matt

[Chris71]

Worth enquiring with the Elise people too. They're not hugely different cars so the jobs required to drop an Audi lump into a Libra are probably quite similar.

[tribbles]

I used one in my Aeon.

[AbusingTheMoog]

Very interesting stuff. I think if I can get a hold of a GTM Libra kit and ship it State-side I'll be putting an Audi 1.8t in it. Bertram has an amazing site full of information. And I will have to pick his brain.

[yazza54]

No kits are being produced anymore, unless there are any knocking about that didn't get built

[AbusingTheMoog]

Yeah, I know. Its really unfortunate. I am looking for one that hasn't been built yet. But on the bright-side I talked to the guys at Manik Technologies (Westfield's US distributer) and what I got from them was promising, apparently Westfield might start making them again sometime after June. But he said they might make the Libra differently than they do now and he hinted to space-frame chassis. In my opinion the monocoque is what makes a Libra a Libra. Nothing is set in stone though.

-Matt

[Furyblade_Lee]

The only person who knows the dimensions ect. of the Audi installtion engine frame in a Libra is Bertram himself. Not Westfield or anyone else at the old GTM have any idea. It was / is not an off the shelf option my any means. And the meticulous way Bertie has done it there is no way it would be financially possible for Westfield to copy it. Lots of bespoke CNC machined parts. If you REALLY want one i would suggest buying a used V6 Libra (enlarged engine bay tub) , stripping it and rebuilding it with an Audi Turbo and Z-Cars rear suspension conversion yourself. He is staying at my house in a few weeks, for a fee I will get the tape measure out when he is asleep ;-)

[AbusingTheMoog]

Hah, what kind of fee? I figured it would be a long and drawn out process, I've been bouncing the idea around for a while now and I'm not worried about CNC'd parts; I've slung some G-code in my day. The main concern now before anything is getting my hands on a Libra tub, as of right now it seems nearly impossible to find one.

-Matt

[Furyblade_Lee]

You can buy a nice Libra for £6k, I THINK you could modify a non-v6 tub by cutting the bulkhead. I would not even bother trying with a new kit, stripping and modding a used registered Libra should be the way to go? I really miss my Libra....

[AbusingTheMoog]

I'm not sure about buying one and then modifying it here in the US. Basically everyone I've contacted about it (the US DOT, EPA, Manik Technologies and a few others) have all said "by no means import a previously registered (in another country) car in to the US." So what I understand from them is that if I were to do that, I would have to first get the car here and then have the importer that I used to modify the car (make it road legal) which means hand fulls of money. And then after that I still couldn't modify it myself and put and Audi 1.8T in it. But if I buy a kit and make it myself here on US soil the rules are different and it is much easier for me and thousands of dollars cheaper. The rules in the US for Kit Cars are from what I've read very "easy" to conform to, but imports are a whole other ball of wax. Seeing as the Libra is a kit car based off of the Rover Metro/100 I would still need one of those as well for Parts/Donor. And I have no idea if I can import one of those to the US; haven't even been able to find one online or in any online (US based) auction sites. I assume I can just as well buy parts directly from Rover, but I come to a wall again by reading that Rover is having problems with part supplies( IE the discontinuation of the Libra kit as of now.) Any thoughts?

Thanks again,
Matt

[rdodger]

There is a part built kit in the classifieds.

As for the Metro parts, you could build it using very few of them.

I would use the Z Cars rear suspension so that would leave the front hubs, steering column, MGF rack. Plus a few other bits. There are breakers here that would be able to supply the parts you need. Talon Sportscars would also be able to help with parts.

[AbusingTheMoog]

There is a part build GTM Libra kit in the classifieds? Really? I can't find it. Can you post a link please.

Thanks,
Matt

[rdodger]

Ah, correction. The was a part built kit in the classifieds.

Sorry.

[scooby8272]

Lots of info RE 1.8T on my website

www.aeonracingteam.com

[AbusingTheMoog]

Rdodger, whats the reasoning behind using the Z car rear suspension?

Thanks, Scooby8272; I'm probably going to have to pick your brain when it comes to performance parts it looks like. =)

Thanks,
Matt

PS: I've got another question about the Audi 1.8T engine but I'm not sure if the Kit Car section is the best place to ask it, with regards to ECU upgrades/wiring.

[Bertram]

AbusingTheMoog said:

Rdodger, whats the reasoning behind using the Z car rear suspension?

PS: I've got another question about the Audi 1.8T engine but I'm not sure if the Kit Car section is the best place to ask it, with regards to ECU upgrades/wiring.

The rear suspension on the Libra is a technically very advanced design. The enourmous amount of parts and joints in it don't help when being used on the edge of its possibilities. The rear suspension will flex, surely with a very powerfull (and more heavy) engine. Remember that the Libra was designed for a 1.4 Engine

What question do you have on wiring / ECU? I have used the standard ECU, modified; immobilizer is disabled. Chipped for more power. The 1.8 can obviously run of an aftermarket ECU too. When I started building my car after market ECU's were not as advanced as they are now. Therefore I choose the option to use the standard ECU.



Bye,


Bertram

Edited by Bertram on Monday 19th April 16:08

Edited by Bertram on Monday 19th April 16:10

[AbusingTheMoog]

Thanks Bertram,

The suspension bits make sense to me, thanks for that. I take the suspension parts don't just bolt up? But it is a "Kit Car- DIY" project. As far as the ECU and Wiring go, (I'm thinking of buying an Audi A4 for a donor) would it be advisable to use all of the wiring harness from that and send the ECU out to be reprogrammed; I came across ( http://www.ecstuning.com/ ) and they have a ECU reprogramming service, where you have have multiple power setting for different fuel types etc. Or would it be more wise to buy a refurbished engine and all of the accoutrements (if so where would be a good source of parts etc.)

Thanks,
Matt

[rdodger]

Re the Z Cars suspension I had it made to solve the problem of flex.

When the Libra suspension was originally designed it was around a single donor car (metro). This meant that it used front hubs on the rear and to package it all they used trailing arms to accomadate the metro hubs. This supension had a top and bottom are, a dozen balljoints, adjustable arms all bolted to a grp bulkhead. I found not only was there flex in the arms but a lot of flex in the bulkhead. The new arms solved this.

Z cars





Original

Edited by rdodger on Monday 19th April 17:09