Trackday and everyday car advice

[mat59]

Hello all.

I'm after some advice about my current car set up.

I currently have a E46 M3 which is worth £10k (ish). It's a great car but recently I've been considering changing it for something suitable for more track work. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the M3 would be great on track but due to the weight and cost of consumables it would be very expensive. Also, as it's fairly valuable I'd have to insure it which adds more expense. Therefore, I'm thinking of getting a trackday car instead and a cheaper everyday car. The trackday car needs be cheapish to run as it should be light so brakes, tyres, fuel etc. It should also be cheap enough so that it doesn't need track insurance.

Has anyone done anything similar? Is this a good idea?

Edited by mat59 on Monday 19th April 12:54

[mat59]

Anyone?

[braddo]

Maybe post in the Track Days forum and you'll get some answers (e.g. Westfield and E36 M3 for £5k each would do nicely).

[300bhp/ton]

mat59 said:

Hello all.

I'm after some advice about my current car set up.

I currently have a E46 M3 which is worth £10k (ish). It's a great car but recently I've been considering changing it for something suitable for more track work. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the M3 would be great on track but due to the weight and cost of consumables it would be very expensive. Also, as it's fairly valuable I'd have to insure it which adds more expense. Therefore, I'm thinking of getting a trackday car instead and a cheaper everyday car. The trackday car needs be cheapish to run as it should be light so brakes, tyres, fuel etc. It should also be cheap enough so that it doesn't need track insurance.

Has anyone done anything similar? Is this a good idea?

Edited by mat59 on Monday 19th April 12:54

Unless you have the dosh, its the only sensible way IMO. Sure you might not have an accident, but it could happen. If its a cheap car then there's less loss.

As for what to use on track, well I think it comes down to what you want from a machine. If it's outright pace and speed, then it'll still cost and it really is a case of the most money spent will result in something very quick.

But as a track day isn't a race and there aren't any winners, champagne and parties afterwards. I'd be more tempted to look at vehicles that might offer bigger thrills, even at the expense of outright lap times.

[anonymous-user]

so something like a 1000cc unicycle then?

[RobM77]

I've run two cars for a while, and whilst I race so don't do many trackdays, I'd highly recommend a Caterham for the track car - nothing beats their combination of interest on track and forgiveness on the limit. For the road car a slower E46 would fit the bill perfectly - perhaps a 325i or 330i? If you can't afford a Caterham road car, then have a look at ex track cars - many can be converted for road use and they're amazing value for money for the performance you get (a friend ran one for a while, and I sold my Caterham race car to someone to convert for road use).

If Caterhams aren't your thing, or your budget's limited, then ELises are getting affordable now and they're also good on track. The only problem with an Elise is the extremely high cost of repair if you come off and hit something (Caterham front wings are about £60 each, whereas an Elise just has two clamshells which if I remember rightly are more than a grand each..).

Edited by RobM77 on Monday 19th April 13:09

[Chris71]

Hi Matt,

I've been using two cars for a while now and I think it makes a lot of sense.

I did my sums recently and estimated it was about £1,000 a year cheaper to run a 1.6 Focus and a (road legal) track-spec Caterham than the best all rounder I could afford, which was an E36 M3.

It's a difficult one though. For the approach to work I think it makes sense to have two very different cars - the sensible must be practical and cheap to run and the fun car must offer more than you could realistically get from an all rounder. The problem is this pigeon holing innevitably lands you in the wrong car. Say you're driving to the track in your stripped out 450kg bike engined missile and suddenly it starts to rain? Or if you need to take the sensible car to fit some luggage in for a weekend away and suddenly you find the sat nav has sent you via the Black Mountains. You have to brace yourself for some frustration (or justify the cost of running a daily driver that's good enough to provide some entertainment).

I suspect the decider is just how much time you spend on track, you will have to compromise in other areas but if you're doing track days every few weeks then it'll make up for it. FWIW I've found thr Caterham very cheap to run so far.

[NickXX]

I have an e46 M3 for the road and an e36 318iS for the track. Cost me £800 with a year's tax, but tarted it up a little since, fitted coilovers, brakes are standard.

[FlatPack]

I've got a Striker (7 type thing) that's mainly used for trackdays and a Subaru Legacy GTB that I use as a daily driver and tow car.

It works for me - consumables for the Striker (tyres, brakes etc) are cheap and last a LONG time, but it's a fantastic drive on track and far more fun conventional road cars. The Subaru is entertaining enough to drive the rest of the time, has a good turn of pace, can tow the Striker so I don't have to drive it to circuits (not fun on the motorway in the pissing rain for hours!) and carry loads of stuff if it needs to.

[mat59]

Rob, Chris, Nick, Flatpack etc. How many track days do you guys tend to do? Can't see myself doing more than half a dozen this summer.

I'm now getting pretty tempted to rent a garage and get a Seven clone and get a 330d/i touring for the daily duties. We have a baby on the way so fitting everything in the M would be tricky anyway.

[RobM77]

mat59 said:

Rob, Chris, Nick, Flatpack etc. How many track days do you guys tend to do? Can't see myself doing more than half a dozen this summer.

I'm now getting pretty tempted to rent a garage and get a Seven clone and get a 330d/i touring for the daily duties. We have a baby on the way so fitting everything in the M would be tricky anyway.

I race and test regularly, so don't really bother with trackdays much because I'd be driving a road car and there's no timing etc. However, the Caterham trackday scene is great and lots of my friends do loads per year in their cars without any discernable wear at all (the benefit of light weight).

If you don't have a garage then definitely consider an Elise - on sunny days like today it's nice to have a car like that outside your house.

If you'd be going for a 7 clone, I'd buy an Elise instead. Just my thoughts, without wishing to stir up another 7/clone debate.

[mat59]

RobM77 said:

mat59 said:

Rob, Chris, Nick, Flatpack etc. How many track days do you guys tend to do? Can't see myself doing more than half a dozen this summer.

I'm now getting pretty tempted to rent a garage and get a Seven clone and get a 330d/i touring for the daily duties. We have a baby on the way so fitting everything in the M would be tricky anyway.

I race and test regularly, so don't really bother with trackdays much because I'd be driving a road car and there's no timing etc. However, the Caterham trackday scene is great and lots of my friends do loads per year in their cars without any discernable wear at all (the benefit of light weight).

If you don't have a garage then definitely consider an Elise - on sunny days like today it's nice to have a car like that outside your house.

If you'd be going for a 7 clone, I'd buy an Elise instead. Just my thoughts, without wishing to stir up another 7/clone debate.

Trouble is I only have parking for one car as I live near a town centre. The everyday car would need to be parked there. The track car would have to go in a rented garage nearby or be parked on the road a few streets away. Not ideal. Yes, I am looking to move.

[RobM77]

mat59 said:

RobM77 said:

mat59 said:

Rob, Chris, Nick, Flatpack etc. How many track days do you guys tend to do? Can't see myself doing more than half a dozen this summer.

I'm now getting pretty tempted to rent a garage and get a Seven clone and get a 330d/i touring for the daily duties. We have a baby on the way so fitting everything in the M would be tricky anyway.

I race and test regularly, so don't really bother with trackdays much because I'd be driving a road car and there's no timing etc. However, the Caterham trackday scene is great and lots of my friends do loads per year in their cars without any discernable wear at all (the benefit of light weight).

If you don't have a garage then definitely consider an Elise - on sunny days like today it's nice to have a car like that outside your house.

If you'd be going for a 7 clone, I'd buy an Elise instead. Just my thoughts, without wishing to stir up another 7/clone debate.

Trouble is I only have parking for one car as I live near a town centre. The everyday car would need to be parked there. The track car would have to go in a rented garage nearby or be parked on the road a few streets away. Not ideal. Yes, I am looking to move.

If it's going in a garage anyway, then get a Caterham If you're low on budget then I'd look at an early S1 Elise or perhaps save up a bit and get an ex racing Caterham for £10k, which is about the going rate for an ex Academy/Roadsport A/B car.

[braddo]

If you can rent a garage nearby, do that for the track car and then you can keep bits and bobs there too (which you would have to store at your place if it was parked on the street). You can always cycle to the garage to pick the car up for track days or evening/weekend hoons - it doesn't need to be on your doorstep.

At least that's what I do.

[mat59]

Starting to think I should keep the M3 and spend £2k on a lightened Golf GTI/Saxo VTS/205 GTI that is already track prepped. Seems to be a few of them in the classifieds. Would love something RWD but can't justify the cost. However, an MX5 or MR2 might just be the solution.

[RobM77]

mat59 said:

Starting to think I should keep the M3 and spend £2k on a lightened Golf GTI/Saxo VTS/205 GTI that is already track prepped. Seems to be a few of them in the classifieds. Would love something RWD but can't justify the cost. However, an MX5 or MR2 might just be the solution.

Any of those would be great fun on track. My suggestions were based around a £20k budget assuming you'd covered the depreciation of the M3 over a typical ownership period.

[Chris71]

mat59 said:

Rob, Chris, Nick, Flatpack etc. How many track days do you guys tend to do?

At the point I bought the Caterham I was doing about one a month (although ironically I've actually done very few since buying it, but that's through no fault of the car).

I don't know enough about the costs of running a bigger car on track to suggest when running a second car becomes cost effective from a track day perspective. However, the reason I started doing it - before I got into track days - was cold hard economics. The cost of insuring something like an M3 (particularly when I was a few years younger) was significantly more than the combined cost of insuring something quick on specialist insurance and insuring a runaround. Likewise a lightweight car with a small four cylinder engine and comparitively skinny tyres rapidly produces savings in servicing costs - I can happily service an ex-race Caterham myself, but I'd have qualms about doing it on an M3 or 911 with a previously full service history.

The subject of what to get is interesting. I'd be inclined to go for a bike engined Fisher Fury or similar. Sevens are very easy to work on if that's your thing, pletniful in track spec and very light (even a bit lighter spec-for-spec than enclosed Seven-type cars like the Fury) but the enclosed cars will dissapear off at higher speeds. My Caterham will keep the faster 911s honest accelerating out of slow corners, but as soon as you approach three figures even standard hot hatches will be off.

ETA You could have this:



Very high spec R1-engined Fisher Fury, and this:



Cheap, practical and still-acceptable-to-drive mk1 Focus estate combined for less than the value of the M3. Okay, the Focus is a bit of a come down after the BM, but you should be able to chase early Radicals in that Fury!

Edited by Chris71 on Monday 19th April 16:16

[braddo]

Javelin track days have a couple of Mk1 MX5s for hire if you want to give one a go before taking the plunge.

Otherwise it sounds like a good plan to look at some of the small hatches in the track day classifieds on here.

[300bhp/ton]

mat59 said:

Starting to think I should keep the M3 and spend £2k on a lightened Golf GTI/Saxo VTS/205 GTI that is already track prepped. Seems to be a few of them in the classifieds. Would love something RWD but can't justify the cost. However, an MX5 or MR2 might just be the solution.

Again I think it goes back to speed or fun.

A Triumph TR7 or TR7 V8, maybe a Wedge Shape TVR V6 or V8 or an older MG might well be affordable, and should potentially be a lot of fun and you'll feel like you are making the car go round the track.

MR2, MX-5, 200SX and MGF's are all newer alternatives if you want RWD.