Ash Cloud Holiday
Discussion
Any thoughts on those employees stuck on "holiday" due the flight embargo?
Have 1 employee caught up in it trying to get back from Spain. He's asked if the time can be taken as compassionate leave or similar not extra holiday given it's not his fault and he's actively trying to get back (hire car > port > ferry). He's already booked his allocation of holiday this year as has a longer break in the summer.
I'm leaning toward allowing it as compassionate leave given the exception circumstances but a colleague thinks that's unfair on others.
Have 1 employee caught up in it trying to get back from Spain. He's asked if the time can be taken as compassionate leave or similar not extra holiday given it's not his fault and he's actively trying to get back (hire car > port > ferry). He's already booked his allocation of holiday this year as has a longer break in the summer.
I'm leaning toward allowing it as compassionate leave given the exception circumstances but a colleague thinks that's unfair on others.
Do you want the precedant set of you being a miserable bugger for when they are in need? I think it is really not their fault and trying to move across the continent at the moment is asking to get wallet raped.
Tell them to enjoy another day or twos holiday but be prepared to catch up with work when they get back.
Tell them to enjoy another day or twos holiday but be prepared to catch up with work when they get back.
Unless he's a Dr Evil type and is somehow behind this, I'd allow it. What's the alternative - discipline him? Cancel his holiday later?
As for it being unfair on other members of staff. It is of course something to consider and you should be prepared to offer the same to any other members of staff who get caught up in this or similar events should they happen in the future.
You'll get a lot more out of staff if you give a little leeway when needed, just be sure to reign in any piss taking.
As for it being unfair on other members of staff. It is of course something to consider and you should be prepared to offer the same to any other members of staff who get caught up in this or similar events should they happen in the future.
You'll get a lot more out of staff if you give a little leeway when needed, just be sure to reign in any piss taking.
peenut said:
I'm leaning toward allowing it as compassionate leave given the exception circumstances but a colleague thinks that's unfair on others.
I'm sure that if the 'others' were in the same situation they would want it to be compassionate leave as well - so your thoughts are actually fair!Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 19th April 11:27
How would you feel if you were made to take holiday to spend time sat bored, on your own, in a crap industrial estate on the outskirts of dusseldorf (or somewhere equally as dreary)?
It's not his fault, far from it, and you will receive FAR more kudos as an employer for helping him through it than you would for disciplining him.
I gurantee the calls from the other employees are two things;
1) Women
2) Not frequent business travellers.
Business travel, as exotic as it sounds, is often not pleasant. You want to be at home with your wife and kids and a home cooked meal, not in a hotel with pay-per-view and room service. Yes, it can be fun, but it can also be very lonely.
edit; ah, so number 1 was wrong. I bet number 2 isn't though
It's not his fault, far from it, and you will receive FAR more kudos as an employer for helping him through it than you would for disciplining him.
I gurantee the calls from the other employees are two things;
1) Women
2) Not frequent business travellers.
Business travel, as exotic as it sounds, is often not pleasant. You want to be at home with your wife and kids and a home cooked meal, not in a hotel with pay-per-view and room service. Yes, it can be fun, but it can also be very lonely.
edit; ah, so number 1 was wrong. I bet number 2 isn't though
Edited by TonyHetherington on Monday 19th April 11:31
Deva Link said:
peenut said:
...a colleague thinks that's unfair on others.
There's probably an EU rule that says everyone has to have the same holidays so you'd better give them extra time off too. 
The problem with giving an inch to Employee A, is that Employee B thinks that the same applies to them for a similar incident months later, then employee C feels that it is similar to what B was allowed and so on. Until the line is pushed so far that you say no - this does not apply here.
Then, a year or two later you get a letter on your desk telling you that Employee F is suing you because you sexually /racially discriminated against them because they couldn't get into work for some reason and you did not offer them the same as the other employees.
Be very careful about what you offer and the reasons why. 10 years ago you could just forget about it and 'do the right thing'. Today you just have to cover your ass, as your acts of compassion can be held against you.
JustinP1 said:
The problem with giving an inch to Employee A, is that Employee B thinks that the same applies to them for a similar incident months later, then employee C feels that it is similar to what B was allowed and so on. Until the line is pushed so far that you say no - this does not apply here.
Then, a year or two later you get a letter on your desk telling you that Employee F is suing you because you sexually /racially discriminated against them because they couldn't get into work for some reason and you did not offer them the same as the other employees.
Be very careful about what you offer and the reasons why. 10 years ago you could just forget about it and 'do the right thing'. Today you just have to cover your ass, as your acts of compassion can be held against you.
One employee has already complained that if he'd have booked his holiday a week later as originally planned he'd now be stuck in Seattle with his g/f not stuck at work...
peenut said:
Any thoughts on those employees stuck on "holiday" due the flight embargo?
Have 1 employee caught up in it trying to get back from Spain. He's asked if the time can be taken as compassionate leave or similar not extra holiday given it's not his fault and he's actively trying to get back (hire car > port > ferry). He's already booked his allocation of holiday this year as has a longer break in the summer.
I'm leaning toward allowing it as compassionate leave given the exception circumstances but a colleague thinks that's unfair on others.
Colleagues like that you don't need.Have 1 employee caught up in it trying to get back from Spain. He's asked if the time can be taken as compassionate leave or similar not extra holiday given it's not his fault and he's actively trying to get back (hire car > port > ferry). He's already booked his allocation of holiday this year as has a longer break in the summer.
I'm leaning toward allowing it as compassionate leave given the exception circumstances but a colleague thinks that's unfair on others.
peenut said:
One employee has already complained that if he'd have booked his holiday a week later as originally planned he'd now be stuck in Seattle with his g/f not stuck at work...
Well, that's the guy to fire then. Fire him, and you can then pay for the unfortunate victim to have compassionate leave in Spain.Edited by dilbert on Monday 19th April 13:24
plasticpig said:
I would give the employee a choice. Either take the extra days as unpaid leave or take it as holiday or make it up as overtime. It's not the companies fault that the employee cannot get to work.
Why aportion "fault" ? It's not the employee's fault that he was abroad at the time of the volcano.It's ridculous, and a shame, that we're even having this conversation.
TonyHetherington said:
It's ridculous, and a shame, that we're even having this conversation.
It's also ironic.Everyone seems to attach a financial value to time away from the office or other's time in relation to their time. It's not the companies fault and now the company are paying. Dave doesnt have to work, so why do I? We're on the same pay. Etc.
Yet when people procure goods and services they don't attach a value or appreciate a cost on behalf of the supplier.
Curious.
TonyHetherington said:
plasticpig said:
I would give the employee a choice. Either take the extra days as unpaid leave or take it as holiday or make it up as overtime. It's not the companies fault that the employee cannot get to work.
Why aportion "fault" ? It's not the employee's fault that he was abroad at the time of the volcano.It's ridculous, and a shame, that we're even having this conversation.
However, in the UK we have a simple system where you are only liable to get paid for the work you do.
Therefore, in a nutshell, if the OP decides to pay the guy anyway, he is paying him for work he has not done. He doesn't have to, but he is setting a precedent.
Who is to say that not getting to work because your car breaks down in Margate is any more different than ash in Spain?
TonyHetherington said:
plasticpig said:
I would give the employee a choice. Either take the extra days as unpaid leave or take it as holiday or make it up as overtime. It's not the companies fault that the employee cannot get to work.
Why aportion "fault" ? It's not the employee's fault that he was abroad at the time of the volcano.It's ridculous, and a shame, that we're even having this conversation.
TonyHetherington said:
It's not his fault, far from it, and you will receive FAR more kudos as an employer for helping him through it than you would for disciplining him.
You stated it's not the employees fault. I stated it's not the companies fault. How is my statement apportioning fault when yours isn't?My options gives the employee a fair choice. They can choose an option which means their income is not affected and the company receives the labour it has paid for. It is an equitable solution to the problem.
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