Which airlines will this this be the end of?
Which airlines will this this be the end of?
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Four Cofffee

Original Poster:

11,838 posts

266 months

Tuesday 20th April 2010
quotequote all

There must be some for whom this ash thing will be the last straw. Lost revenues across most of Europe, accomodating thousands of people in an open ended wait, disruption with this start/stop opening and closing of various airspaces.

So, who will go down first?

cptsideways

13,894 posts

283 months

Tuesday 20th April 2010
quotequote all
BA must be high on the list

elster

17,517 posts

241 months

Tuesday 20th April 2010
quotequote all
flybe for me

M-J-B

15,401 posts

281 months

Tuesday 20th April 2010
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I know it won't cause them any problems but I'd love to see Continental go forever as they are a complete shower of st!

StevieBee

15,492 posts

286 months

Tuesday 20th April 2010
quotequote all
Now, I don't fully get this airlines-in-trouble-due-to-ash thing.

I'm not saying that I don't appreciate significant money is being lost but as I see it, they are looking like loosing around 6 to 7 days of flying. During that period, many people will have booked and paid for seats. Some will have to cancel (but only those that insured will get their money back) but others (like me) will simply fly later on. Even those that were planning to fly these past few days last minute, most will simply book for a later date.

Equally, the airlines are not using fuel. They are not buying meals, wine, etc. They don't pay landing fees (around £13k IIRC for each landing at Heathrow)......

I find it odd that the budget airlines, who gain a lot of additional revenue through food sales and added extras (so stand to suffer the greatest problems with cashflow) appear less concerned than the larger carriers where once a ticket is booked and paid for, is pretty much it in terms of further revenue from the same customer.

andy ted

1,325 posts

296 months

Tuesday 20th April 2010
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
Now, I don't fully get this airlines-in-trouble-due-to-ash thing.

I'm not saying that I don't appreciate significant money is being lost but as I see it, they are looking like loosing around 6 to 7 days of flying. During that period, many people will have booked and paid for seats. Some will have to cancel (but only those that insured will get their money back) but others (like me) will simply fly later on. Even those that were planning to fly these past few days last minute, most will simply book for a later date.

Equally, the airlines are not using fuel. They are not buying meals, wine, etc. They don't pay landing fees (around £13k IIRC for each landing at Heathrow)......

I find it odd that the budget airlines, who gain a lot of additional revenue through food sales and added extras (so stand to suffer the greatest problems with cashflow) appear less concerned than the larger carriers where once a ticket is booked and paid for, is pretty much it in terms of further revenue from the same customer.
presume its fixed costs and cashflow? you travelling next week means they can't sell that seat etc....

sonic_2k_uk

4,008 posts

238 months

Tuesday 20th April 2010
quotequote all
And all the employee costs without most of them being able to do any work.

Plotloss

67,280 posts

301 months

Tuesday 20th April 2010
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
Now, I don't fully get this airlines-in-trouble-due-to-ash thing.

I'm not saying that I don't appreciate significant money is being lost but as I see it, they are looking like loosing around 6 to 7 days of flying. During that period, many people will have booked and paid for seats. Some will have to cancel (but only those that insured will get their money back) but others (like me) will simply fly later on. Even those that were planning to fly these past few days last minute, most will simply book for a later date.

Equally, the airlines are not using fuel. They are not buying meals, wine, etc. They don't pay landing fees (around £13k IIRC for each landing at Heathrow)......

I find it odd that the budget airlines, who gain a lot of additional revenue through food sales and added extras (so stand to suffer the greatest problems with cashflow) appear less concerned than the larger carriers where once a ticket is booked and paid for, is pretty much it in terms of further revenue from the same customer.
Planes are financed and if they're not earning...

dcw@pr

3,516 posts

274 months

Tuesday 20th April 2010
quotequote all
cptsideways said:
BA must be high on the list
BBC said they have £1.7bn cash and can get £400m I'm loans, so I think they are ok for now.

StevieBee

15,492 posts

286 months

Tuesday 20th April 2010
quotequote all
Plotloss said:
Planes are financed and if they're not earning...
True. But I would have thought that the last thing a finance company wants is a bust airline so one would think that they would extend the terms to accommodate the lost days.

jon-

16,534 posts

247 months

Tuesday 20th April 2010
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
Plotloss said:
Planes are financed and if they're not earning...
True. But I would have thought that the last thing a finance company wants is a bust airline so one would think that they would extend the terms to accommodate the lost days.
Interesting point. My father works in aircraft financing, I'll ask what they (BAe) are doing about the situation.

williamp

20,464 posts

304 months

Tuesday 20th April 2010
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I would have thought the first few days the airliners would have loved it- got the cash from the customers, but were unable to fly them due to force majeur. Hence no come-back.

Now its getting on time-wise, they must start to feel the pinch when people are not booking new flights.

JonX2C

820 posts

241 months

Tuesday 20th April 2010
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I have a monitor on my BBG for European airline stocks and they are all up today!

jazzybee

3,056 posts

280 months

Tuesday 20th April 2010
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Another cost the European Airlines have is covering the cost of passangers' well being whilst left stranded. My wife and daughter are stuck for 2 weeks, we have been told that they can claim hotels bills upto 3*, and food - just submit reciepts upon return. That could amount to £1200 (it won't as she is with family) - The total cost of flights was £245 for two seats (when you take out taxes, fuel surcharges etc.).

munky

5,328 posts

279 months

Tuesday 27th April 2010
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some interesting figures from our sales guys, on the number of days cash some of the airlines hold (i.e. days they can survive without flying, basically)

BA: 100
EasyJet: 160
Ryanair: 460!

Simpo Two

93,061 posts

296 months

Tuesday 27th April 2010
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I'm surprised they have cash. I thought most companies lived on overdrafts and leasing arrangements.