Weekend Car for 12k

[greggy50]

Hello
My dad is looking at getting a toy for the weekend. He is 50 so don’t think a caterham etc... will suit him but he is looking something with a big fun factor and a fair bit of straight line poke. He also wants something that does not depreciate massively and really he does not want huge running costs although he does realise it will cost more to run than a normal car.
Just wanted some real world experience of running costs and opinions and also possible suggestions for cars I have not thought off. Currently I have suggested the following so the more real world costs and opinions the better.
Vauxhall Monaro
TVR Chimera
Nissan 350Z
Porsche Boxter
Honda S2000
BMW M3
Thanks
Greg

[RobM77]

The cars you've listed are all great, but they're solid daily drivers. 50's not to old for a Caterham, or perhaps an Elise?

[greggy50]

He is also 6 foot 2 and 17 odd stone and car will have to be kept outside as we don’t have a big garage (my mini only just squeezes in when it is not full of rubbish) an elise sounds like a decent idea if he will fit in okay however Oh and don’t think he is generally a fan of Caterham to be honest as suggested one and he did not seem to keen.
I think he really likes the idea of the monaro or the tvr to be honest others are as you say a bit boring so information on those two really is going to be the most useful. He does like lotus's so if he fits will get him to take a look at one because they are a great drive.

Edited by greggy50 on Monday 26th April 01:16

[GravelBen]

greggy50 said:

I think he really likes the idea of the monaro or the tvr to be honest others are as you say a bit boring...

A Monaro is pretty much just a fast taxi on its own side of the world, obviously being rare in the UK makes them seem more interesting.

If its a fun toy with straight-line grunt and a real sense of occasion then the TVR sounds a good idea.

Edited by GravelBen on Monday 26th April 01:26

[greggy50]

GravelBen said:

greggy50 said:

I think he really likes the idea of the monaro or the tvr to be honest others are as you say a bit boring...

A Monaro is pretty much just a fast taxi on its own side of the world, obviously being rare in the UK makes them seem more interesting.

If its a fun toy with straight-line grunt and a real sense of occasion then the TVR sounds a good idea.

Edited by GravelBen on Monday 26th April 01:26

Yeah I do realise that myself but I do like the look and dad did fall in love with one at motor show few years back. And tvr does indeed sound good but running costs seem scary I mean for say 6k miles what are we looking at to keep one on the road? monaro will be hundreds guessing tvr could be thousands
What sort of elise's can you get for this type of money thought it may be a bit leggy for this outlay
Had another chat his shortlist is:-
Vauxhall Monaro
TVR Chimera
Nissan 350Z
Lotus Elise (possible)

[Tyre Smoke]

A TVR Chimaera is a kit car with a Rover V8 in the front. For the purists I will modify that a bit, it's a parts bin we.

There is nothing on a Chimaera that needs specialist servicing costing thousands. Any competent spanner man can service them. Ring your local motor factor and get the price for a V8 oil filter, Scorpio brake pads, etc. I would say a 6k service should cost no more than £180/£200 and an annual chassis inpection/waxoyl another £150ish.

A good Chim with all the right history can easily be had for £10k or less. As long as it's been driven and serviced, buy on condition, condition, condition.

Example: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1549939.htm

[300bhp/ton]

greggy50 said:

GravelBen said:

greggy50 said:

I think he really likes the idea of the monaro or the tvr to be honest others are as you say a bit boring...

A Monaro is pretty much just a fast taxi on its own side of the world, obviously being rare in the UK makes them seem more interesting.

If its a fun toy with straight-line grunt and a real sense of occasion then the TVR sounds a good idea.

Edited by GravelBen on Monday 26th April 01:26

Yeah I do realise that myself but I do like the look and dad did fall in love with one at motor show few years back. And tvr does indeed sound good but running costs seem scary I mean for say 6k miles what are we looking at to keep one on the road? monaro will be hundreds guessing tvr could be thousands
What sort of elise's can you get for this type of money thought it may be a bit leggy for this outlay
Had another chat his shortlist is:-
Vauxhall Monaro
TVR Chimera
Nissan 350Z
Lotus Elise (possible)

Monaro and 350 will continue to depreciate IMO. Elise less so. But it depends what sort of fun he is after. The Elise is certainly the more challenging to get in and out of, so I'd say a sit in one and a test drive should be of the first order.

TVR would make a great weekend car and hold it's money well. It should also be reliable, but they do like TLC.

If it's V8 power then similar to the Monaro how about a Corvette? Probably talking C4 rather than C5 at this price. But it'd certainly have a bit more wow factor.

Or maybe a Mustang, these generally hold thier money very well in the UK and again are just a bit more select than a Monaro, although the Monaro is a great machine also. A few months back there was a Mustang Mach 1 on eBay for about £9k and recently a supercharged Mustang Cobra in the PH classifieds for £10.5k. The latter Cobra's hav IRS, 6 speed manual and a very cool supercharger. They are also fast, and only need an exhaust, induction kit and a pulley change ok the blower and will make 500-550hp.

Another V8 brute to maybe consider would be a Ford Lightning pick up. They have a 5.4 supercharged V8 and a lot of fun. Bu being as it'd a truck it also has a practical side too.

Lastly and more a TVR alternative £12k should get you an AC Shelby Cobra replica. Huge statement, loads of fun and again should be reliable.

[daveparry]

I agree with Tre smoke, go for the TVR and don't be shephearded into using a "specialist"

[greggy50]

Our neighbour has a cobra replica and imo not a good car to be left outside and we would only be able to afford a rover V8 engined one at this sort of money and he would always wish he could have afforded a 5.7 etc...
Mustangs and that are nice and I did suggest it to him but the fact it is left hand drive puts him off a lot he is not a fan of corvette's at all and is not after a pick up out of the american lot the thing that might most interest him is the mustang to be honest so again a test drive may be needed.
Information about the TVR is sounding promising the more real world costs the better to be honest as can pass all this on.
Also what engine is the best to have for this sort of money 4.0/4.3/4.5?

[andy43]

He'll fit in the TVR (Peter Wheeler was 6 foot plus) and it has the sense of weekend 'occasion' lacking in most of the rest of the shortlist. You'd get an excellent 4.5 Chim for 12k.

[Chris71]

TVR!

Chimaera if he wants to use it for touring; mint Griffith if it's more as a toy.

I wouldn't rule out the Caterham though. My dad still enjoys a spirited drive and he's 68.

Having owned both (well, an S3 rather than a Chimaera on the TVR side, but it's still the same sort of thing) I'd say the Caterham blitzes it as a pure white knuckle drivers car and is perhaps an easier ownership experience (everything's simple and easy to get to if it breaks) but the TVR is far more practical for touring and feels 'more special more of the time'. It has fantastic presence even when you're stuck in traffic, whereas the Seven only comes alive when you can stretch its legs, preferably on a track.

[greggy50]

Okay well might see if can suggest the TVR then what are the problem areas to look for when buying one of these? I believe a mates dad might have one so might see if he could take a look when we go to look at some. This look very nice though
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1650359.htm

[300bhp/ton]

greggy50 said:

TVR is sounding promising the more real world costs the better to be honest as can pass all this on.
Also what engine is the best to have for this sort of money 4.0/4.3/4.5?

Essentially the bigger the engine the more power, but the 4.3 is an oddball motor and depending on it's exact build (heads and cam) can often make as much HP as larger displacement.

That said, a 4.0 litre isn't slow, but after a while it may leave you wanting for more.

But the great thing with TVR's like these, is they are very tunable.

The RV8 does suffer with warn cams and followers, so any engine, regardless of size could well be down on power. Think a claimed 240hp from a 4.0 litre (which was a bit of a lie in the first place) might only be making 190hp.

Not a problem though and an easy fix.

Other alternatives, and I often wonder why more people don't do this.

Buy a tidy 4.0 litre Chim. Buy a used 4.6 RV8 from a Range Rover, add one silly cam and some ported heads to the 4.6. Take out 4.0 litre and flog for silly money, because it's a "TVR engine...." and fit the 4.6, it'll make good power, probably as good as many factory 5.0's but at less money.


Other things to note with the TVR's. Remember they will like TLC, it's not that they are fragile, but just engineered in way that likes a bit of attention. This doesn't make them unreliable, just higher maintenance.

But the trick IMO is, don't pay silly prices for simple jobs. A Chim is not a complex car, it uses Ford brakes and either a Ford or Rover gearbox depending on year and a Range Rover engine.

This all means that most jobs can be done by any competent mechanic. Oil changes don't need to be done by specialists, as they'll probably charge you a lot more than you need to pay.

[Chris71]

greggy50 said:

Okay well might see if can suggest the TVR then what are the problem areas to look for when buying one of these?

There are three that tend to come up:

1) outriggers
2) outriggers
3) outriggers

Basically the chassis are quite prone to rust if not looked after (regularly inspected/painted/waxoyled). You either want a very clean original chassis or evidence of body off chassis repairs - don't be put off by new outriggers, trailing arms etc. if it's been done it's probably better than a car that hasn't.

The other thing I'd say is that good ones are great, quick and pretty reliable, but they do vary a lot and not always according to their price or description! Look at loads and take your time.

[greggy50]

300bhp/ton said:

greggy50 said:

TVR is sounding promising the more real world costs the better to be honest as can pass all this on.
Also what engine is the best to have for this sort of money 4.0/4.3/4.5?

Essentially the bigger the engine the more power, but the 4.3 is an oddball motor and depending on it's exact build (heads and cam) can often make as much HP as larger displacement.

That said, a 4.0 litre isn't slow, but after a while it may leave you wanting for more.

But the great thing with TVR's like these, is they are very tunable.

The RV8 does suffer with warn cams and followers, so any engine, regardless of size could well be down on power. Think a claimed 240hp from a 4.0 litre (which was a bit of a lie in the first place) might only be making 190hp.

Not a problem though and an easy fix.


Other alternatives, and I often wonder why more people don't do this.

Buy a tidy 4.0 litre Chim. Buy a used 4.6 RV8 from a Range Rover, add one silly cam and some ported heads to the 4.6. Take out 4.0 litre and flog for silly money, because it's a "TVR engine...." and fit the 4.6, it'll make good power, probably as good as many factory 5.0's but at less money.


Other things to note with the TVR's. Remember they will like TLC, it's not that they are fragile, but just engineered in way that likes a bit of attention. This doesn't make them unreliable, just higher maintenance.

But the trick IMO is, don't pay silly prices for simple jobs. A Chim is not a complex car, it uses Ford brakes and either a Ford or Rover gearbox depending on year and a Range Rover engine.

This all means that most jobs can be done by any competent mechanic. Oil changes don't need to be done by specialists, as they'll probably charge you a lot more than you need to pay.

Okay thanks a lot for this information will pass this on to my dad when he gets back from work as think TVR might be the car to go for to be honest. Text this kid at 6th form and his dad does indeed have a chimera a 4.3 big valve head which he recons is very rare (apparently). Only lives couple miles away so asked if my dad can go take a look at his to see one in the flesh he has owned for a few years so should be able to pass a fair bit of information onto my dad as well I hope.

[Tyre Smoke]

That car you highlight is bang on. I don't know the car, but you are bang on the money for the sort of things to look at. As I stated before, condition,condition,condition. Particualrly the chassis!

These cars were built in a shed in Blackpool. The chassis prep was iffy to say the least. Whatever TVR you might go for, no matter what the seller says, get it up on a ramp and poke and prod at every bit of the chassis - as stated before, particularly the outriggers between the wheelbase - use a screwdriver to prod the corners and don't be too afraid. If there is any rot, it is a body off job to do it properly if you intend to keep the car - at least £3/4000.

If you are not familiar with the cars, get a decent mechanic to go with you to look, they don't need specialist TVR trained eyes to see a lemon.

Subjective, but PAS seems to be preferred, but drive both. Non PAS are heavy at parking speeds, but more 'responsive' at cruising altitude.

Check for water ingress, particularly in the footwells - front of passenger side is where the ECU and battery live.

Bottom line is, nothing is terminal on them. Pretty much everything spares wise is cheap and anything is fixable - even a rotten chassis.

[RobM77]

greggy50 said:

300bhp/ton said:

greggy50 said:

TVR is sounding promising the more real world costs the better to be honest as can pass all this on.
Also what engine is the best to have for this sort of money 4.0/4.3/4.5?

Essentially the bigger the engine the more power, but the 4.3 is an oddball motor and depending on it's exact build (heads and cam) can often make as much HP as larger displacement.

That said, a 4.0 litre isn't slow, but after a while it may leave you wanting for more.

But the great thing with TVR's like these, is they are very tunable.

The RV8 does suffer with warn cams and followers, so any engine, regardless of size could well be down on power. Think a claimed 240hp from a 4.0 litre (which was a bit of a lie in the first place) might only be making 190hp.

Not a problem though and an easy fix.


Other alternatives, and I often wonder why more people don't do this.

Buy a tidy 4.0 litre Chim. Buy a used 4.6 RV8 from a Range Rover, add one silly cam and some ported heads to the 4.6. Take out 4.0 litre and flog for silly money, because it's a "TVR engine...." and fit the 4.6, it'll make good power, probably as good as many factory 5.0's but at less money.


Other things to note with the TVR's. Remember they will like TLC, it's not that they are fragile, but just engineered in way that likes a bit of attention. This doesn't make them unreliable, just higher maintenance.

But the trick IMO is, don't pay silly prices for simple jobs. A Chim is not a complex car, it uses Ford brakes and either a Ford or Rover gearbox depending on year and a Range Rover engine.

This all means that most jobs can be done by any competent mechanic. Oil changes don't need to be done by specialists, as they'll probably charge you a lot more than you need to pay.

Okay thanks a lot for this information will pass this on to my dad when he gets back from work as think TVR might be the car to go for to be honest. Text this kid at 6th form and his dad does indeed have a chimera a 4.3 big valve head which he recons is very rare (apparently). Only lives couple miles away so asked if my dad can go take a look at his to see one in the flesh he has owned for a few years so should be able to pass a fair bit of information onto my dad as well I hope.

Given the brief and responses so far I think a TVR may be the way to go. Do buy carefully and get it properly maintained though. I think it's worth looking at an Elise and a Boxster too. The Boxster may be a bit boring for some of us, but if you're Dad's after something nice and open top with a bit of pace it might be just up his street - it won't mind sitting still Mon-Fri too; the TVR may have issues with that from what I've heard from owners.

[cs02rm0]

£12k's not too far off a Tuscan, is it?

I'm staying at a holiday cottage between houses at the moment, walked out the door this morning to see a Tuscan, Chimera and an S series I think. Beautiful cars.

[300bhp/ton]

greggy50 said:

300bhp/ton said:

greggy50 said:

TVR is sounding promising the more real world costs the better to be honest as can pass all this on.
Also what engine is the best to have for this sort of money 4.0/4.3/4.5?

Essentially the bigger the engine the more power, but the 4.3 is an oddball motor and depending on it's exact build (heads and cam) can often make as much HP as larger displacement.

That said, a 4.0 litre isn't slow, but after a while it may leave you wanting for more.

But the great thing with TVR's like these, is they are very tunable.

The RV8 does suffer with warn cams and followers, so any engine, regardless of size could well be down on power. Think a claimed 240hp from a 4.0 litre (which was a bit of a lie in the first place) might only be making 190hp.

Not a problem though and an easy fix.


Other alternatives, and I often wonder why more people don't do this.

Buy a tidy 4.0 litre Chim. Buy a used 4.6 RV8 from a Range Rover, add one silly cam and some ported heads to the 4.6. Take out 4.0 litre and flog for silly money, because it's a "TVR engine...." and fit the 4.6, it'll make good power, probably as good as many factory 5.0's but at less money.


Other things to note with the TVR's. Remember they will like TLC, it's not that they are fragile, but just engineered in way that likes a bit of attention. This doesn't make them unreliable, just higher maintenance.

But the trick IMO is, don't pay silly prices for simple jobs. A Chim is not a complex car, it uses Ford brakes and either a Ford or Rover gearbox depending on year and a Range Rover engine.

This all means that most jobs can be done by any competent mechanic. Oil changes don't need to be done by specialists, as they'll probably charge you a lot more than you need to pay.

Okay thanks a lot for this information will pass this on to my dad when he gets back from work as think TVR might be the car to go for to be honest. Text this kid at 6th form and his dad does indeed have a chimera a 4.3 big valve head which he recons is very rare (apparently). Only lives couple miles away so asked if my dad can go take a look at his to see one in the flesh he has owned for a few years so should be able to pass a fair bit of information onto my dad as well I hope.

Yep the big valve 4.3 is a very good motor and one of the better performing RV8's. But I personally wouldn't be put off by the others. The 4.3's are generally a bit older too.

And I know you said no earlier. If you want something similar to a TVR, as in front mounted V8, fast, good looking, rare, 2 seat, rwd sports car, fibreglass body on spaceframe style chassis. Then a Corvette does a very good alternative.

A C4 is slightly heavier, but not by much and in many cases will make more real world power. Usually better specced and they don't have the issue's or need the TLC of a TVR. OK they are LHD, but it really only takes a weekend to fully get used to it.

I don't actually have a TVR to use as a comparison. But I've known people with them (Chims and Griffs). But I do run a TR7 V8. OK, it's not a TVR, but it runs a modded Rover V8 engine, on the dyno was making over 220hp. It also runs a Rover LT77 5 speed gearbox, the same as early Chims. And uses Ford brakes. It also weighs in just over a tonne, is a 2 seat, rwd sports car of similar dimensions. So it's quite a similar car in a number of ways.

I also don't have a Corvette, but I do have a Camaro, which uses much of the Corvette running gear in terms of engine and transmission.

They are different machines, but the "old Yank tank" is actually very capable and very easy to live with. It sounds better than the RV8 and knocks the spots off it performance wise too.

[Tyre Smoke]

cs02rm0 said:

£12k's not too far off a Tuscan, is it?

I'm staying at a holiday cottage between houses at the moment, walked out the door this morning to see a Tuscan, Chimera and an S series I think. Beautiful cars.

With a Semtex 6 engine.

Weekend toy? RV8 everytime.