Parking fines and the law: any lawyers here?
Discussion
I'd appreciate advice about whether to keep fighting a parking fine or pay the f**kers.
A few months back I parked in a pay and display in Richmond, Surrey. I had plenty of cash on me, but only enough change for 2 hours (I needed 3 to take me up to whatever time in the evening they stop charging).
I paid what I could and left a note in the windscreen accepting there was a shortfall and offering to pay it if they called me on my mobile.
Sure enough, I got a ticket and a £40 fine which doubles if left unpaid for 28 days.
I wrote to them asking them to overturn the fine on the grounds that I had offered to pay for sufficient parking with UK legal tender (£5 and £10 notes) and it was not my fault they had refused to accept my payment (being as the meter takes only coins). The declined.
However, I had also enclosed a cheque for £1.60 which I offered 'in settlement of the outstanding parking charges', which they accepted and cashed. In their reply they stated that they had accepted this money 'in part settlement of the fine'.
Anyway, I appealed to the Parking Adjudicator and my case was rejected. The reply read as if they hadn't even bothered to look at my case - it went on about it not being acceptable to leave the car unattended while searching for change and it talked about the £1.60 being 'offered in part payment of the parking fine'.
Looking at this pragmatically, the time I've put into this so far is worth a lot more than £80 so I'm tempted to pay the fine then visit the car park one night with my Superglue, which should cost them rather more than 80 quid in meter repairs and lost parking charges.
However, on a point of principle I do think their position is wrong. It seems to me that I offered to pay three times with legal tender: first when I tried to buy 3hrs parking but they wouldn't take my money as it was in the form of notes rather than change; second when I put a note in the windscreen and the third when I wrote to them enclosing a cheque in settlement of the outstanding parking charges. On the third occasion they accepted my money.
I'm pretty sure that I'm in a strong position regarding the first two occasions and certain regarding the third. Or am I wrong?
Does anyone (legally qualified?) here know whether there's a right of appeal beyond the parking adjudicator and if so how this works and whether I'm likely to win?
A few months back I parked in a pay and display in Richmond, Surrey. I had plenty of cash on me, but only enough change for 2 hours (I needed 3 to take me up to whatever time in the evening they stop charging).
I paid what I could and left a note in the windscreen accepting there was a shortfall and offering to pay it if they called me on my mobile.
Sure enough, I got a ticket and a £40 fine which doubles if left unpaid for 28 days.
I wrote to them asking them to overturn the fine on the grounds that I had offered to pay for sufficient parking with UK legal tender (£5 and £10 notes) and it was not my fault they had refused to accept my payment (being as the meter takes only coins). The declined.
However, I had also enclosed a cheque for £1.60 which I offered 'in settlement of the outstanding parking charges', which they accepted and cashed. In their reply they stated that they had accepted this money 'in part settlement of the fine'.
Anyway, I appealed to the Parking Adjudicator and my case was rejected. The reply read as if they hadn't even bothered to look at my case - it went on about it not being acceptable to leave the car unattended while searching for change and it talked about the £1.60 being 'offered in part payment of the parking fine'.
Looking at this pragmatically, the time I've put into this so far is worth a lot more than £80 so I'm tempted to pay the fine then visit the car park one night with my Superglue, which should cost them rather more than 80 quid in meter repairs and lost parking charges.
However, on a point of principle I do think their position is wrong. It seems to me that I offered to pay three times with legal tender: first when I tried to buy 3hrs parking but they wouldn't take my money as it was in the form of notes rather than change; second when I put a note in the windscreen and the third when I wrote to them enclosing a cheque in settlement of the outstanding parking charges. On the third occasion they accepted my money.
I'm pretty sure that I'm in a strong position regarding the first two occasions and certain regarding the third. Or am I wrong?
Does anyone (legally qualified?) here know whether there's a right of appeal beyond the parking adjudicator and if so how this works and whether I'm likely to win?
Tricky one, to be honest it might be better to draw a line under it and save any more grief. The bottom line is you didn't pay there and then, offering to pay isn't as good as actually paying.
I know how frustrating it is though. I got a parking ticket the other day, parked outside my own flat. We have a private car park, the entrance to which has a single yellow line running from the main road, about 5 metres into the entrance. The car park was full one day so I had to park part on this line, and promptly received a ticket for £100! or £50 if I pay in 14 days...hundred
ing quid for parking outside my flat!! Thing is, the line has no t-bar and is therefore apparently not enforceable....
So FK 'em, I'm not paying and will be challenging it when they send a notification to owner.
I know how frustrating it is though. I got a parking ticket the other day, parked outside my own flat. We have a private car park, the entrance to which has a single yellow line running from the main road, about 5 metres into the entrance. The car park was full one day so I had to park part on this line, and promptly received a ticket for £100! or £50 if I pay in 14 days...hundred
ing quid for parking outside my flat!! Thing is, the line has no t-bar and is therefore apparently not enforceable.... So F
K 'em, I'm not paying and will be challenging it when they send a notification to owner.Saw a classic recently in the local paper. After the last blizzard this dilligent postal worker got up at 6am to go to work, he parked as usual in the car park. He was the 1st in and the ground was entirely covered in snow. He bought and displayed then went to work. On his return he had a ticket. As the Nazi was still around he confronted him as his ticket was valid only to be told the ticket was for straddling two bays. His protestations that when he parked the snow was covering the lines was met with total indifference. Total jobsworth!!
Best just to pay the fine and simmer over it for a while,knowing the way the legal system works just now,a Scum bag thief would get a slap on the wrist and you whom i assume is a law abiding citizen would get a massive fine or possibly a term at her majestys pleasure......Think I'm Kidding...............
Good old Sureway, haven't lost their touch.
under the London Metropolitan devolved powers the Ajudicator is your last chance. I suppose you could appeal to the European Court if there were human rights issues but I think its pretty much sown up.
If you don't pay up the next step will be the bailiff knocking at your door or wielding his wheel clamp. There is no Court option.
Where you are screwed is that the parking regulations for the borough specify payment at the time of parking and detail the means of payment, coinage etc. Do it any other way and you are in breech of the regulations and thats what the fine is actually for.
Put it down to experience or park in the multi story where you pay on exit next time.
>> Edited by gnomesmith on Saturday 28th February 01:55
under the London Metropolitan devolved powers the Ajudicator is your last chance. I suppose you could appeal to the European Court if there were human rights issues but I think its pretty much sown up.
If you don't pay up the next step will be the bailiff knocking at your door or wielding his wheel clamp. There is no Court option.
Where you are screwed is that the parking regulations for the borough specify payment at the time of parking and detail the means of payment, coinage etc. Do it any other way and you are in breech of the regulations and thats what the fine is actually for.
Put it down to experience or park in the multi story where you pay on exit next time.
>> Edited by gnomesmith on Saturday 28th February 01:55
nonegreen said:
If this is the council you can kick up a fuss for ages and they will drop it.
Richmond's statistics of cases resolved cases abandoned, recovery by baliffs and vehicles siezed suggest that the number of cases they drop is insignificant. I'd think it highly unlikely that it will be dropped. Knowing a number of the officers who deal with Richmond's appeals I'd hazard a guess that the more fuss you make the less chance there is that they will go away.
swilly said:
If you ignore it, you may end with the bailiffs chasing you for the £80 + £400 fee, or summink similar.
Make an offer to pay in installments, say £10 /month.
That way you wont notice the loss as much, and get some satisfaction at causing them so grief.
baliffs cant di shit
If you dont let em in they cant do f all
and put you car in someone elses name.
Roadrage said:
baliffs cant di shit
If you dont let em in they cant do f all
and put you car in someone elses name.
Not true, the bailiff can clamp and remove your car. If the car is in somebody elses name then thats the person they will be seeking the parking fine from as they would have sent the PCN to that person. The car doesn't have to be near your home to be siezed. A list of 'wanted' cars is given to the PAs, if they see it on the street they can radio the clampers/removers.
In time the C charge computers will be able to provide intelligence regarding the whereabouts of 'wanted' cars.
5ltr-chim said:
Did you send a covering note with the cheque ?
If so:
Did it say anything along the lines that it was to cover the shortfall ? If so they I think you'll find that by cashing it they have accepted it as such.
If it was me I'd have my day in court regardless!.
Good Luck..
Yes, that's what's so frustrating. I wrote to them explaining that I had tried to pay for sufficient parking but they had refused to take my money, first because their ticket machines don't accept notes and second because they failed to follow up the message I left in the windscreen offering to pay if they phoned me.
I finished my letter thus:
>>I remain willing to pay the difference between the amount I paid to park and the amount that I should have paid, namely £1.60, and I enclose a cheque made payable to London Borough of Richmond upon Thames for this amount.
In view of the circumstances that I have outlined, I should be grateful if you would consider accepting the enclosed cheque in settlement of parking charges and cancel the penalty notice. I enclose all relevant documentation for your perusal. <<
It seems to me that in cashing my cheque they accepted payment from me for the shortfall in parking charges and hence should have dropped the penalty notice. Unless, of course, they stole that money from me.... (which might be an interesting line to pursue...)
Gnomesmith - who are you? The information you have regarding LBRuT is spot on.
And, to add to this from Gnomesmith, if you superglue their machines it probably won't actually cost Richmond Parking Enforcement anything, the cost will be bourne by someone else. Unless it is totally trashed requireing a new machine.
They are HIGHLY unlikely to drop the case, particularly if the parking ajudicator has ruled in their favour. If you are still within the 28 days then pay the £40. It'll be less painful than £80 later, or considerably more still a few months further on.
Sorry. This is not what you want to hear.
zcacogp
And, to add to this from Gnomesmith, if you superglue their machines it probably won't actually cost Richmond Parking Enforcement anything, the cost will be bourne by someone else. Unless it is totally trashed requireing a new machine.
They are HIGHLY unlikely to drop the case, particularly if the parking ajudicator has ruled in their favour. If you are still within the 28 days then pay the £40. It'll be less painful than £80 later, or considerably more still a few months further on.
Sorry. This is not what you want to hear.
zcacogp
Try www.parkingticket.co.uk - but from a non-legal person's point of view your letter stands you in a very strong position.
Another idea - send them hundreds of 1p cheques
Another idea - send them hundreds of 1p cheques
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