Sick Impreza Turbo
Discussion
Car is a UK 98 turbo 2000 wagon, no engine mods, 114k on the clock.
All running perfectly in good health until last night when I was driving home there was a sudden drastic loss of power accompanied by a sound similar to the exhaust blowing (it wasn't). No warning lights on the dash.
I pulled over, got my torch out the boot and had a look under the bonnet.
All seemed normal except:
turbo was glowing red (I had only been pottering along slowly, not caning it)
engine was rocking from side to side and tick over was very lumpy (like it could have been running on 2 cylinders).
As I was only a couple of miles away from home, and the temp gauge was normal, and there were no warning lights on, I decided to limp home slowly. As it was dark and my rear screen is tinted it is impossible to say whether or not it was smoking.
This morning I went to have a look over it. Water and oil levels are both normal, it has not lost any fluids (or if it has, only a tiny amount). It started, and still sounds like it is running on two units, and still a very lumpy idle. Still sounds sick. No smoke on tick over, and a small amount of smoke if its reved to about 3,000 RPM
Any guesses as to what may be wrong, or, what the first stage of fault diagnoses should be?
I have a nasty feeling this is going to be expencive.
Answers on a post card.
Is taking the cylinder heads off an engine out job?
All running perfectly in good health until last night when I was driving home there was a sudden drastic loss of power accompanied by a sound similar to the exhaust blowing (it wasn't). No warning lights on the dash.
I pulled over, got my torch out the boot and had a look under the bonnet.
All seemed normal except:
turbo was glowing red (I had only been pottering along slowly, not caning it)
engine was rocking from side to side and tick over was very lumpy (like it could have been running on 2 cylinders).
As I was only a couple of miles away from home, and the temp gauge was normal, and there were no warning lights on, I decided to limp home slowly. As it was dark and my rear screen is tinted it is impossible to say whether or not it was smoking.
This morning I went to have a look over it. Water and oil levels are both normal, it has not lost any fluids (or if it has, only a tiny amount). It started, and still sounds like it is running on two units, and still a very lumpy idle. Still sounds sick. No smoke on tick over, and a small amount of smoke if its reved to about 3,000 RPM
Any guesses as to what may be wrong, or, what the first stage of fault diagnoses should be?
I have a nasty feeling this is going to be expencive.
Answers on a post card.
Is taking the cylinder heads off an engine out job?
You fail to give vital information.
How was it being driven when the problem occured ?
First obvious thing, if indeed you are correct and it hasnt dumped oil everywhere, and there isnt any smoke.
Remove the spark plugs to inspect and check for spark at all 4 cylinders.
A glowing turbo is nothing unsual....depending of course on driving conditions leading up to you looking at it. Which you dont state.
And only a crazed lunatic would try and remove the heads in-situ...so it is possible. But about 5 x the amount of work and hassle than removing the engine.
How was it being driven when the problem occured ?
First obvious thing, if indeed you are correct and it hasnt dumped oil everywhere, and there isnt any smoke.
Remove the spark plugs to inspect and check for spark at all 4 cylinders.
A glowing turbo is nothing unsual....depending of course on driving conditions leading up to you looking at it. Which you dont state.
And only a crazed lunatic would try and remove the heads in-situ...so it is possible. But about 5 x the amount of work and hassle than removing the engine.
BIG DUNC said:
Car is a UK 98 turbo 2000 wagon, no engine mods, 114k on the clock.
All running perfectly in good health until last night when I was driving home there was a sudden drastic loss of power accompanied by a sound similar to the exhaust blowing (it wasn't). No warning lights on the dash.
I pulled over, got my torch out the boot and had a look under the bonnet.
All seemed normal except:
turbo was glowing red (I had only been pottering along slowly, not caning it)
engine was rocking from side to side and tick over was very lumpy (like it could have been running on 2 cylinders).
As I was only a couple of miles away from home, and the temp gauge was normal, and there were no warning lights on, I decided to limp home slowly. As it was dark and my rear screen is tinted it is impossible to say whether or not it was smoking.
This morning I went to have a look over it. Water and oil levels are both normal, it has not lost any fluids (or if it has, only a tiny amount). It started, and still sounds like it is running on two units, and still a very lumpy idle. Still sounds sick. No smoke on tick over, and a small amount of smoke if its reved to about 3,000 RPM
Any guesses as to what may be wrong, or, what the first stage of fault diagnoses should be?
I have a nasty feeling this is going to be expencive.
Answers on a post card.
Is taking the cylinder heads off an engine out job?
Look like he said he wasnt caning it, only pottering along!!All running perfectly in good health until last night when I was driving home there was a sudden drastic loss of power accompanied by a sound similar to the exhaust blowing (it wasn't). No warning lights on the dash.
I pulled over, got my torch out the boot and had a look under the bonnet.
All seemed normal except:
turbo was glowing red (I had only been pottering along slowly, not caning it)
engine was rocking from side to side and tick over was very lumpy (like it could have been running on 2 cylinders).
As I was only a couple of miles away from home, and the temp gauge was normal, and there were no warning lights on, I decided to limp home slowly. As it was dark and my rear screen is tinted it is impossible to say whether or not it was smoking.
This morning I went to have a look over it. Water and oil levels are both normal, it has not lost any fluids (or if it has, only a tiny amount). It started, and still sounds like it is running on two units, and still a very lumpy idle. Still sounds sick. No smoke on tick over, and a small amount of smoke if its reved to about 3,000 RPM
Any guesses as to what may be wrong, or, what the first stage of fault diagnoses should be?
I have a nasty feeling this is going to be expencive.
Answers on a post card.
Is taking the cylinder heads off an engine out job?
Thanks and useful.
Has not been tinkered with since the last service a couple of thousand miles ago.
I was thinking of a compresion test, but my compresion tester will not be easy to get into the spark plug holes.
I will start by checking for spark, fuel, and taking the cam belt cover off and making sure it has not slipped.
Has not been tinkered with since the last service a couple of thousand miles ago.
I was thinking of a compresion test, but my compresion tester will not be easy to get into the spark plug holes.
I will start by checking for spark, fuel, and taking the cam belt cover off and making sure it has not slipped.
BIG DUNC said:
I was thinking of a compresion test, but my compresion tester will not be easy to get into the spark plug holes.
Given that it's smoking I'd get one that is or get an extension hose for the one you have and potentially save yourself an awful lot of time.Mine wasn't smoking all that much given that I had next to no compression in number 2 and when I did a leak down test it was all going down in to the block.
BIG DUNC said:
If not, I will get an extension for my compresion tester
I'm pretty sure I used my gunson one from halfords by the way so you shouldn't need anything special. You'll have a lot more room if you take the washer bottle out on one side and the airbox on the other.Good luck.
I did check the hoses, and could not see anything amiss, but I did not take the intercooler off. As much as I could I ran my hands over the hoses that I could not see, and tried looking with a mirror. I didnt get as far as looking at the turbo wastegate.
When it happened the turbo was glowing bright red.
I think I may have bigger problems than a pipe.
The car was serviced about 500 miles ago, and had new plugs fitted then. I removed both the near side plugs today. On both of them, the ends were completely burnt away. Nothing left of either electrode. I dont think they could have been making any kind of spark (well, one of the four must have been). Both the off side plugs refused to come out. They turned easily for a couple of turns, then picked up in the threads and went tight. I tried to work them back and forward, but now both are really tight, so I am into an engine out situation anyway.........
I am not sure how Subaru engines are numbered, but I put my compresion tester on the near side plugs. The forward cylinder had 120 psi / 8.5 bar. The rear cylinder had zero compresion. Definately an engine out job.
Does anyone know what the approximate cost of parts for an engine rebuild is likely to be?
The car is 12 years old, and while its clean and tidy, its not special, and if the cost of putting it right will be more than its worth, then I rather know now.
If the cost of parts to put it right is about the same as its worth, I am inclined to keep it and do it. However, I allready have one car / engine in lots of bits over the garage, so I wont start this project until that one is finished.....
When it happened the turbo was glowing bright red.
I think I may have bigger problems than a pipe.
The car was serviced about 500 miles ago, and had new plugs fitted then. I removed both the near side plugs today. On both of them, the ends were completely burnt away. Nothing left of either electrode. I dont think they could have been making any kind of spark (well, one of the four must have been). Both the off side plugs refused to come out. They turned easily for a couple of turns, then picked up in the threads and went tight. I tried to work them back and forward, but now both are really tight, so I am into an engine out situation anyway.........
I am not sure how Subaru engines are numbered, but I put my compresion tester on the near side plugs. The forward cylinder had 120 psi / 8.5 bar. The rear cylinder had zero compresion. Definately an engine out job.
Does anyone know what the approximate cost of parts for an engine rebuild is likely to be?
The car is 12 years old, and while its clean and tidy, its not special, and if the cost of putting it right will be more than its worth, then I rather know now.
If the cost of parts to put it right is about the same as its worth, I am inclined to keep it and do it. However, I allready have one car / engine in lots of bits over the garage, so I wont start this project until that one is finished.....
Now to put the fear of god into you.
Melted plugs do not happen under normal driving conditions. They usually happen when giving it some...and lean mixtures/detonation destroys them.
Although a picture of the plugs would maybe tell more. Are they melted, or maybe physical damage ?
Not sure of any other conditions that could cause it.
Chances are you've also melted pistons too.
Even more worrying than that though, is the fact the other plugs wont even come out. That suggests severe physical damage to the plug tip. Perhaps dropped valve or similar. Maybe slipped timing belt.
I wouldnt force them out just yet though. When the head is off you will soon see any damage. Although depends how stiff they actually are to remove.
Either way, the engine is screwed. Time for it to either come part, or be replaced.
No matter what, it wont be cheap.
Melted plugs do not happen under normal driving conditions. They usually happen when giving it some...and lean mixtures/detonation destroys them.
Although a picture of the plugs would maybe tell more. Are they melted, or maybe physical damage ?
Not sure of any other conditions that could cause it.
Chances are you've also melted pistons too.
Even more worrying than that though, is the fact the other plugs wont even come out. That suggests severe physical damage to the plug tip. Perhaps dropped valve or similar. Maybe slipped timing belt.
I wouldnt force them out just yet though. When the head is off you will soon see any damage. Although depends how stiff they actually are to remove.
Either way, the engine is screwed. Time for it to either come part, or be replaced.
No matter what, it wont be cheap.
Edited by stevieturbo on Saturday 1st May 21:12
Yes, agreed.
First plug came out.
First thought, "Oh, the tips broken off". Good look. "Tip may be broken, but the end of the plug is not happy. Thats little bits of melted metal. Ut Oh"
Second plug was the same.
Other side, turned nicely to start with, then went stiff. Didn't want to (for some strange reason, as I am sure the engine is screwed anyway) damage the thread in the head. Went on to the next one. Exactly the same. Did not persevere too much as by this stage I was sure that the engine was going to have to come out anyway. But they are tight.
Now, I have three options:
1. Buy second hand engine.
2. Sell car for spares / repair
3. Take engine out and strip it down with a view to rebuilding it, but depending on what the strip down reveals, could revert to option 1 or 2.
First plug came out.
First thought, "Oh, the tips broken off". Good look. "Tip may be broken, but the end of the plug is not happy. Thats little bits of melted metal. Ut Oh"
Second plug was the same.
Other side, turned nicely to start with, then went stiff. Didn't want to (for some strange reason, as I am sure the engine is screwed anyway) damage the thread in the head. Went on to the next one. Exactly the same. Did not persevere too much as by this stage I was sure that the engine was going to have to come out anyway. But they are tight.
Now, I have three options:
1. Buy second hand engine.
2. Sell car for spares / repair
3. Take engine out and strip it down with a view to rebuilding it, but depending on what the strip down reveals, could revert to option 1 or 2.
Maybe your MAF broke some how and it ran lean. There's plenty of stuff on the subaru forums of this happening and we think it happened to mine too.
I replaced my engine with a low mileage engine from API engines. It cost me £1500 and it was pretty straight forward to fit although time consuming. Have a look at their website for what you get for your money. I found them very helpful when the engine started leaking oil out of the crank oil seal and they sorted it all out for me. The engine then did another 20k miles before I sold the car. The new engine was supplied on an exchange basis by the way.
I replaced my engine with a low mileage engine from API engines. It cost me £1500 and it was pretty straight forward to fit although time consuming. Have a look at their website for what you get for your money. I found them very helpful when the engine started leaking oil out of the crank oil seal and they sorted it all out for me. The engine then did another 20k miles before I sold the car. The new engine was supplied on an exchange basis by the way.
Edited by dern on Sunday 2nd May 01:42
dern said:
Maybe your MAF broke some how and it ran lean. There's plenty of stuff on the subaru forums of this happening and we think it happened to mine too.
I replaced my engine with a low mileage engine from API engines. It cost me £1500 and it was pretty straight forward to fit although time consuming. Have a look at their website for what you get for your money. I found them very helpful when the engine started leaking oil out of the crank oil seal and they sorted it all out for me. The engine then did another 20k miles before I sold the car. The new engine was supplied on an exchange basis by the way.
Very rare on a 98 car, the airflow meters are very reliable, and if he "was not caning it", damage due to lean mixture simply could not occur.I replaced my engine with a low mileage engine from API engines. It cost me £1500 and it was pretty straight forward to fit although time consuming. Have a look at their website for what you get for your money. I found them very helpful when the engine started leaking oil out of the crank oil seal and they sorted it all out for me. The engine then did another 20k miles before I sold the car. The new engine was supplied on an exchange basis by the way.
Edited by dern on Sunday 2nd May 01:42
Car completely standard, and being gently treated at the time of the incident.
Anyway, cause is kind of less important now, as I dont think much of the engine will be savable. It will be interesting to take it apart and see how bad it is inside, but I am not holding my hopes up for a simple fix.
Anyway, cause is kind of less important now, as I dont think much of the engine will be savable. It will be interesting to take it apart and see how bad it is inside, but I am not holding my hopes up for a simple fix.
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