NHS- annual auto payrises & going up a band?

[amir_j]

Spoke with a NHS worker today

Has had a automatic 4-5% pay increase which seems to be a combination of inflation and "going up a band increment" as "you automatically go up a band increment each year".

Anyone know the in and outs and the 'it's actually good sense and not a gravy train at all because...' argument?

Edited by amir_j on Friday 30th April 17:13

[ofcorsa]

They have incremental pay rises within a band each year + inflation, Going up a Band isn't automatic and usually requires a new job/promotion.

(unless they have just been re-banded due to agenda for change, But i thought that was all settled a while ago)

Edited by ofcorsa on Friday 30th April 16:27

[ulakye]

These are the actual bandings

http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/...

Some bands you do move up annually but there are things called 'gateways' if I remember correctly where you don't automatically get the next band without meeting performance targets.

[amir_j]

ofcorsa said:

They have incremental pay rises within a band each year

Thats the one, the question is why? Surely anything on top of inflation should be discretionary and for the select few top performers?

[amir_j]

ulakye said:

These are the actual bandings

http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/...

Some bands you do move up annually but there are things called 'gateways' if I remember correctly where you don't automatically get the next band without meeting performance targets.

The "spine points" within a band seem to be a right from what I'm told?, in the private sector for normal jobs you have a banding of below market, market and above market. How well you negotiate when starting the role is where you tend to stay plus inflationa and unless a top x% worker iirc

[Mojooo]

I work for a LA and we go up a band each year if we are OK'd by our manager in a review (basically you just have to do what you are meant to do) - you can also be prevented from going up a band.

Seperatley we get inflation rises each year which means all bands go up slightly - but as far as I understand there is no rise this year for LA workers.

[Mojooo]

amir_j said:

ulakye said:

These are the actual bandings

http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/...

Some bands you do move up annually but there are things called 'gateways' if I remember correctly where you don't automatically get the next band without meeting performance targets.

The "spine points" within a band seem to be a right from what I'm told?, in the private sector for normal jobs you have a banding of below market, market and above market. How well you negotiate when starting the role is where you tend to stay plus inflationa and unless a top x% worker iirc

In some of the private sector jobs I was in you got rewarded the longer you did the job... and there was also the scope to get much more significant pay rises.

[amir_j]

Mojooo said:

amir_j said:

ulakye said:

These are the actual bandings

http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/...

Some bands you do move up annually but there are things called 'gateways' if I remember correctly where you don't automatically get the next band without meeting performance targets.

The "spine points" within a band seem to be a right from what I'm told?, in the private sector for normal jobs you have a banding of below market, market and above market. How well you negotiate when starting the role is where you tend to stay plus inflationa and unless a top x% worker iirc

In some of the private sector jobs I was in you got rewarded the longer you did the job... and there was also the scope to get much more significant pay rises.

Wasn't aware, when I was employed was in Blue Chips where your stuck at what you entered in and a bit more based on your annual 'appraisal' i.e how much your manager liked you compared to your team and even so would have to be limited to a distribution curve. Then you would get a internal move to a senior role and they would do their best to put you in at 'below market'- to get a 'large rise' meant moving companies.

Edited by amir_j on Friday 30th April 16:57

[vixta]

amir_j said:

ulakye said:

These are the actual bandings

http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/...

Some bands you do move up annually but there are things called 'gateways' if I remember correctly where you don't automatically get the next band without meeting performance targets.

The "spine points" within a band seem to be a right from what I'm told?, in the private sector for normal jobs you have a banding of below market, market and above market. How well you negotiate when starting the role is where you tend to stay plus inflationa and unless a top x% worker iirc

http://www.rcn.org.uk/support/pay_and_conditions/pay_rates_2010-2011

[Phoenix]

Welcome to the labour gravy train. Totally unrelated to the real world and the economy. Oh, and your actual performance in your job.

[ofcorsa]

Thing is, There are jobs which need incentivising (sp) as there is no natural career progression and the salaries are relatively low, Even if your the best arse wiper in the world there is little call for the worlds best bumwiper.

The problem is the NHS apply this blanket to all positions and jobs.

[jagracer]

There are only 4 or 5 increments then you stop, the pay on the lower increments is pretty dismal and no where near what you'd get in the private sector when you reach the top increment.

[hman]

Personally I really cant see the issue with the banding within the NHS.

If the OP has a problem with it I would suggest he mentions it the next time he's ill enough to be admitted - then he can find out all the ins and outs of the NHS system first hand.

[amir_j]

hman said:

Personally I really cant see the issue with the banding within the NHS.

If the OP has a problem with it I would suggest he mentions it the next time he's ill enough to be admitted - then he can find out all the ins and outs of the NHS system first hand.

The person I spoke to was my other half calling me to announce her good news

[jagracer]

amir_j said:

hman said:

Personally I really cant see the issue with the banding within the NHS.

If the OP has a problem with it I would suggest he mentions it the next time he's ill enough to be admitted - then he can find out all the ins and outs of the NHS system first hand.

The person I spoke to was my other half calling me to announce her good news

Same here, my wife has just got a £40 per month rise but I don't think that equates to 4% though

[scrawler]

ulakye said:

These are the actual bandings

http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/...

Some bands you do move up annually but there are things called 'gateways' if I remember correctly where you don't automatically get the next band without meeting performance targets.

A job is allocated a band under 'Agenda for Change' the pay structure that was brought in a few years ago.

for example a staff nurse will be a band 5

This nurse, if newly qualified will progress through the pay increments each year until they come to a gateway- when they have to prove their performance or competency at the role. If they do not perform they are then halted at the gateway until they perform. Initially new qualified nurses have to show they performance at a basic level by completing a period of preceptorship.

This does mean that for 8 years staff do get an incremental rise and also a wage rise according to inflation from the pay rise but after that time they do get only the annual pay award, unless they secure a job in a higher band- when they then go through the process in the next band.

All staff have a KSF - Knowledge and Skills Framework to complete to show and evidence that they are competent in their role. Lots of paperwork and gathering of bits of paper!!

It is supposed to encourage people to work to progress for grades higher eg. staff nurse to junior sister/charge nurse to senior sister/charge nurse.

Although it means 2 pay rises a year, it does need to be taken into account that the overall salaries for the lower bands are limited with little chance of progressing to the higher bands and working within jobs which are difficult and demanding.

[whoami]

Thankfully, the days of this sort of crap are about to come to an abrupt end.

[Syd knee]

ulakye said:

These are the actual bandings

http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/...

Some bands you do move up annually but there are things called 'gateways' if I remember correctly where you don't automatically get the next band without meeting performance targets.

Is there a similar thing for doctors or OTs

[oldbanger]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It depends what bit of the public sector you work in. Big organisations like NHS trusts and local council will all have this kind of thing. However small outfits, such as your local GP surgery don't. My OH manages a GP practice and all pay has been frozen for 5 years now due to the funding having also been frozen.

[jagracer]

oldbanger said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It depends what bit of the public sector you work in. Big organisations like NHS trusts and local council will all have this kind of thing. However small outfits, such as your local GP surgery don't. My OH manages a GP practice and all pay has been frozen for 5 years now due to the funding having also been frozen.

NHS is not much different, last year my wife got something like 0.2%, pretty much the same as my rise which equates to the best part of nothing. Councils are nothing like the NHS for pay, my nephew works for Lambeth and sits inputting data all day and earns £37K PA but they can steal that money off the rate payers can't they so it doesn't matter.