Skoda Octavia VRS (Or more specifically the 1.8 20VT Engine)
Discussion
Evening all!
Me and my PH friend were discussing cars (Quelle surprise) in the pub last night, and we both agreed that the MK1 Skoda Octavia VRS Estate offered splendid value for money as a daily at the moment, however we were also discussing the cars potential and (more specifically) it's 'sleeper' potential. Whilst we both agreed that the car would benefit from a decent set of coilovers to 'enhance' its stock handling (and road presence) we were stuck as to what power can be (safely and reliably) extracted - so, with a budget of £1500 (or £2000 if you can justify it!) on top of the purchase price, what (ideally with examples) performance can be extracted (meeting the earlier set criteria) and where is qualified/recommended for these mods?
Thanks in advance & over to you...
(Or are we completely wrong and better cars are available)
Me and my PH friend were discussing cars (Quelle surprise) in the pub last night, and we both agreed that the MK1 Skoda Octavia VRS Estate offered splendid value for money as a daily at the moment, however we were also discussing the cars potential and (more specifically) it's 'sleeper' potential. Whilst we both agreed that the car would benefit from a decent set of coilovers to 'enhance' its stock handling (and road presence) we were stuck as to what power can be (safely and reliably) extracted - so, with a budget of £1500 (or £2000 if you can justify it!) on top of the purchase price, what (ideally with examples) performance can be extracted (meeting the earlier set criteria) and where is qualified/recommended for these mods?
Thanks in advance & over to you...
(Or are we completely wrong and better cars are available)
DanGPR said:
Seat Ibiza cupra, same engine, lighter shell? Remap, intercooler and hybrid turbo can see you most of the way to 300bhp.
Agree that the Ibiza is lighter (and probably a better steer) but doesn't offer the fantastic appeal of a 5 seat estate daily - also can the mod's you describe be achieved for the £1500 budget? (And is 300bhp on the standard internals of a 60k/70k engine realistic?)Robbie C said:
This has turned into quite a read 
I'm running a MK3 Ibiza Cupra with 296.9 BHP and 344.4 lb/ft, but it hasn't been cheap to do it properly and make it tractable, including full brakes, suspension and an ATB (torsen) diff.
Full spec at: http://seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21777...
With regards to how much power the standard 1.8T internals can take, it's actually down to torque rather than BHP and how fast it is delivered to the engine.
I run a hybrid K03S which is a small turbo and on full boost by 2800-3000 RPM, producing over 330 lb/ft by 4500 so it throws it in very aggressively and then tails off higher up the RPM, as you can clearly see:
Because the torque is delivered so aggressively and instantaneously I would be an idiot not to uprate my rods (which I have), though I'm running <300 BHP. See where this is going?
Take an IHI VF34 that can produce ~320-330 BHP before you have to start worrying about melting the hotside and you'll find many people will say that rods aren't a necessity. Why? Because these typically only produce ~280 lb/ft and it's a much more progressive delivery of power which is kinder on the internals.
It all depends on what setup you are running, not simply how much BHP which people get so hung up on.
I will concede that my setup isn't the most sensible, but since when was that any fun? With my ATB diff and suspension etc I can still happily spin up in third if you choose the use the throttle as an on/off switch but to say that the power isn't usable is rubbish. Tyres are probably the biggest issue, lasting an average of 4k at the moment but it makes for big grins.
Oh, and my vote is an LCR
From http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a... Hatchbacks&mid=97906I'm running a MK3 Ibiza Cupra with 296.9 BHP and 344.4 lb/ft, but it hasn't been cheap to do it properly and make it tractable, including full brakes, suspension and an ATB (torsen) diff.
Full spec at: http://seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21777...
With regards to how much power the standard 1.8T internals can take, it's actually down to torque rather than BHP and how fast it is delivered to the engine.
I run a hybrid K03S which is a small turbo and on full boost by 2800-3000 RPM, producing over 330 lb/ft by 4500 so it throws it in very aggressively and then tails off higher up the RPM, as you can clearly see:
Because the torque is delivered so aggressively and instantaneously I would be an idiot not to uprate my rods (which I have), though I'm running <300 BHP. See where this is going?
Take an IHI VF34 that can produce ~320-330 BHP before you have to start worrying about melting the hotside and you'll find many people will say that rods aren't a necessity. Why? Because these typically only produce ~280 lb/ft and it's a much more progressive delivery of power which is kinder on the internals.
It all depends on what setup you are running, not simply how much BHP which people get so hung up on.
I will concede that my setup isn't the most sensible, but since when was that any fun? With my ATB diff and suspension etc I can still happily spin up in third if you choose the use the throttle as an on/off switch but to say that the power isn't usable is rubbish. Tyres are probably the biggest issue, lasting an average of 4k at the moment but it makes for big grins.
Oh, and my vote is an LCR
Edited by Robbie C on Thursday 29th April 13:26
300 bhp will need a decent amount of work, new turbo, plumbing, intercooler etc. No need for internal work at the 300 Bhp level. Remap, intercooler, cold air intake, exhaust will get you maybe 230Bhp on a kS03 turbo. Anything more and it starts getting expensive. An option is to look for a KS04 turbo from a Cupra R, S3 or TT. Another is one of the off the shelf turbo kits for the engine, but still going to get expensive quickly.
JBS (I stand corrected on the tuner) did a 450 BHP Octavia 4x4 estate project. Lovely Q car, but mucho dinero. 20VT can run 500 Bhp reliably but needs money thrown at it.
JBS (I stand corrected on the tuner) did a 450 BHP Octavia 4x4 estate project. Lovely Q car, but mucho dinero. 20VT can run 500 Bhp reliably but needs money thrown at it.
Chris_w666 said:
Robbie C said:
This has turned into quite a read
I'm running a MK3 Ibiza Cupra with 296.9 BHP and 344.4 lb/ft, but it hasn't been cheap to do it properly and make it tractable, including full brakes, suspension and an ATB (torsen) diff.
Full spec at: http://seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21777...
With regards to how much power the standard 1.8T internals can take, it's actually down to torque rather than BHP and how fast it is delivered to the engine.
I run a hybrid K03S which is a small turbo and on full boost by 2800-3000 RPM, producing over 330 lb/ft by 4500 so it throws it in very aggressively and then tails off higher up the RPM, as you can clearly see:
Because the torque is delivered so aggressively and instantaneously I would be an idiot not to uprate my rods (which I have), though I'm running <300 BHP. See where this is going?
Take an IHI VF34 that can produce ~320-330 BHP before you have to start worrying about melting the hotside and you'll find many people will say that rods aren't a necessity. Why? Because these typically only produce ~280 lb/ft and it's a much more progressive delivery of power which is kinder on the internals.
It all depends on what setup you are running, not simply how much BHP which people get so hung up on.
I will concede that my setup isn't the most sensible, but since when was that any fun? With my ATB diff and suspension etc I can still happily spin up in third if you choose the use the throttle as an on/off switch but to say that the power isn't usable is rubbish. Tyres are probably the biggest issue, lasting an average of 4k at the moment but it makes for big grins.
Oh, and my vote is an LCR
From http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a... Hatchbacks&mid=97906I'm running a MK3 Ibiza Cupra with 296.9 BHP and 344.4 lb/ft, but it hasn't been cheap to do it properly and make it tractable, including full brakes, suspension and an ATB (torsen) diff.
Full spec at: http://seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21777...
With regards to how much power the standard 1.8T internals can take, it's actually down to torque rather than BHP and how fast it is delivered to the engine.
I run a hybrid K03S which is a small turbo and on full boost by 2800-3000 RPM, producing over 330 lb/ft by 4500 so it throws it in very aggressively and then tails off higher up the RPM, as you can clearly see:
Because the torque is delivered so aggressively and instantaneously I would be an idiot not to uprate my rods (which I have), though I'm running <300 BHP. See where this is going?
Take an IHI VF34 that can produce ~320-330 BHP before you have to start worrying about melting the hotside and you'll find many people will say that rods aren't a necessity. Why? Because these typically only produce ~280 lb/ft and it's a much more progressive delivery of power which is kinder on the internals.
It all depends on what setup you are running, not simply how much BHP which people get so hung up on.
I will concede that my setup isn't the most sensible, but since when was that any fun? With my ATB diff and suspension etc I can still happily spin up in third if you choose the use the throttle as an on/off switch but to say that the power isn't usable is rubbish. Tyres are probably the biggest issue, lasting an average of 4k at the moment but it makes for big grins.
Oh, and my vote is an LCR
Edited by Robbie C on Thursday 29th April 13:26
) But is this figure achievable for £1500 - and is it a reliable proposition? I often read big 'HP' figures - just wonder what they cost to achieve, and can they be lived with in a daily? (When installed by a pro, not a spanner twirling moron like me... )j44esd said:
Funnily enough it was this thread that kicked off the discussion (That, and 300bhp's random suggestions - no offence 300 if you read this - I often love your off-the-wall car suggestions - just sometimes not your 'presentation' style in discussions... ) But is this figure achievable for £1500 - and is it a reliable proposition? I often read big 'HP' figures - just wonder what they cost to achieve, and can they be lived with in a daily? (When installed by a pro, not a spanner twirling moron like me... )
No, Hybrid turbo alone is £1500, never mind mapping and ancillary engine parts, plus brakes, suspension etc. probably looking double that as a guestimate. ) But is this figure achievable for £1500 - and is it a reliable proposition? I often read big 'HP' figures - just wonder what they cost to achieve, and can they be lived with in a daily? (When installed by a pro, not a spanner twirling moron like me... )Traveller said:
j44esd said:
Funnily enough it was this thread that kicked off the discussion (That, and 300bhp's random suggestions - no offence 300 if you read this - I often love your off-the-wall car suggestions - just sometimes not your 'presentation' style in discussions... ) But is this figure achievable for £1500 - and is it a reliable proposition? I often read big 'HP' figures - just wonder what they cost to achieve, and can they be lived with in a daily? (When installed by a pro, not a spanner twirling moron like me... )
No, Hybrid turbo alone is £1500, never mind mapping and ancillary engine parts, plus brakes, suspension etc. probably looking double that as a guestimate. ) But is this figure achievable for £1500 - and is it a reliable proposition? I often read big 'HP' figures - just wonder what they cost to achieve, and can they be lived with in a daily? (When installed by a pro, not a spanner twirling moron like me... )http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2010... (£3000)
I (we) thought that for a modest outlay you maybe able to generate a 'rapid' daily - the problem is, above £1500 (plus the cars initial purchase price) you are into the territory of 'faster' metal for the money! Hence the tight guidelines!
I like the idea of a modified Octavia 1.8T but would prefer something not very lowered, and not a VRS. I think there is someone on here with a 400bhp one that looks very shed like.
I've also mulled over the idea of a new Beetle 1.8T, 150bhp in standard tune but some Audi TT suspension bits, ARBs better brakes etc, and then even a little bit of work with a better intercooler and a K04 Turbo and a remap to take it over 230bhp would give a reliable car, that people would call me names for owning, and girls would love, and SWMBO would approve of, and would be quite nippy when the mood took me.
I've also mulled over the idea of a new Beetle 1.8T, 150bhp in standard tune but some Audi TT suspension bits, ARBs better brakes etc, and then even a little bit of work with a better intercooler and a K04 Turbo and a remap to take it over 230bhp would give a reliable car, that people would call me names for owning, and girls would love, and SWMBO would approve of, and would be quite nippy when the mood took me.
The limitation on the Octavia is the turbo, you will not get above 230 Bhp or so without changing it. no way around it, option might be an engine swop with a 225 BAM motor from an S3, LCR or TT but that has it own problems and would almost certainly blow your budget. Cheap big power is usually best achieved with Japanese. An old saying goes you can 2 of the three, fast, reliable or cheap. It is very true.
Chris_w666 said:
I like the idea of a modified Octavia 1.8T but would prefer something not very lowered, and not a VRS. I think there is someone on here with a 400bhp one that looks very shed like.
I've also mulled over the idea of a new Beetle 1.8T, 150bhp in standard tune but some Audi TT suspension bits, ARBs better brakes etc, and then even a little bit of work with a better intercooler and a K04 Turbo and a remap to take it over 230bhp would give a reliable car, that people would call me names for owning, and girls would love, and SWMBO would approve of, and would be quite nippy when the mood took me.
Good thought! I like cars that no one expects to be quick (Probably explains my love of Alpina's) however the key part of the Octavia Estate as the base car is that it could be used for a trip to stock up the cellar in France as much as it could drudge me to work everyday - the MX-5 in the profile is the 'toy' so I need an element of practicality, but don't think this should mean an element of 'dull-ness'... (This is all hypothetical though as I run a dis-easel Passat! I've also mulled over the idea of a new Beetle 1.8T, 150bhp in standard tune but some Audi TT suspension bits, ARBs better brakes etc, and then even a little bit of work with a better intercooler and a K04 Turbo and a remap to take it over 230bhp would give a reliable car, that people would call me names for owning, and girls would love, and SWMBO would approve of, and would be quite nippy when the mood took me.
)Chris_w666 said:
I like the idea of a modified Octavia 1.8T but would prefer something not very lowered, and not a VRS. I think there is someone on here with a 400bhp one that looks very shed like.
I've also mulled over the idea of a new Beetle 1.8T, 150bhp in standard tune but some Audi TT suspension bits, ARBs better brakes etc, and then even a little bit of work with a better intercooler and a K04 Turbo and a remap to take it over 230bhp would give a reliable car, that people would call me names for owning, and girls would love, and SWMBO would approve of, and would be quite nippy when the mood took me.
They actually did a beetle RSI, with a 3.2 VR6 motor but it was seriously ugly.I've also mulled over the idea of a new Beetle 1.8T, 150bhp in standard tune but some Audi TT suspension bits, ARBs better brakes etc, and then even a little bit of work with a better intercooler and a K04 Turbo and a remap to take it over 230bhp would give a reliable car, that people would call me names for owning, and girls would love, and SWMBO would approve of, and would be quite nippy when the mood took me.
Traveller said:
The limitation on the Octavia is the turbo, you will not get above 230 Bhp or so without changing it. no way around it, option might be an engine swop with a 225 BAM motor from an S3, LCR or TT but that has it own problems and would almost certainly blow your budget. Cheap big power is usually best achieved with Japanese. An old saying goes you can 2 of the three, fast, reliable or cheap. It is very true.
Fine! This is the exact answer I was looking for! So if the car can *only* make 230bhp from the stock turbo - how do you go about this? And what are the associated costs? And would it be any good? What would be better for the money? (but still fulfill the role of Estate & affordable daily?) (I know they are all questions, but I love Pistonheads vast knowledge on all queries automotive!)j44esd said:
Good thought! I like cars that no one expects to be quick (Probably explains my love of Alpina's) however the key part of the Octavia Estate as the base car is that it could be used for a trip to stock up the cellar in France as much as it could drudge me to work everyday - the MX-5 in the profile is the 'toy' so I need an element of practicality, but don't think this should mean an element of 'dull-ness'... (This is all hypothetical though as I run a dis-easel Passat! )
MX5 with LS1 v8..... 400 Bhps of Thor gargling with boulders. Mmmmmmmmmmmm Now you talking. )Traveller said:
j44esd said:
Good thought! I like cars that no one expects to be quick (Probably explains my love of Alpina's) however the key part of the Octavia Estate as the base car is that it could be used for a trip to stock up the cellar in France as much as it could drudge me to work everyday - the MX-5 in the profile is the 'toy' so I need an element of practicality, but don't think this should mean an element of 'dull-ness'... (This is all hypothetical though as I run a dis-easel Passat! )
MX5 with LS1 v8..... 400 Bhps of Thor gargling with boulders. Mmmmmmmmmmmm Now you talking. ) You show me a garage capable of converting my '5 to a V8 for £1500, and i'll show you my cheque book! j44esd said:
Fine! This is the exact answer I was looking for! So if the car can *only* make 230bhp from the stock turbo - how do you go about this? And what are the associated costs? And would it be any good? What would be better for the money? (but still fulfill the role of Estate & affordable daily?) (I know they are all questions, but I love Pistonheads vast knowledge on all queries automotive!)
Jump on seatcupra.net, number of guys did various different options on the 20vt on both Ibizas and Leons (Octavia in a summer dress), hybrid turbo as above, turbo kits, even engine swops. All of them are > £2000 once the turbo comes out. If I remember correctly one guy did a turbo kit for 2 or 3 grand but he did most of the work himself. At the least an intercooler, piping ( if not standard fit), remap and if the turbo does not fit the standard manifolds then custom manifolds, oil feed pipes, air intakes etc. never mind the labour cost and cost of the new turbo.Traveller said:
j44esd said:
Fine! This is the exact answer I was looking for! So if the car can *only* make 230bhp from the stock turbo - how do you go about this? And what are the associated costs? And would it be any good? What would be better for the money? (but still fulfill the role of Estate & affordable daily?) (I know they are all questions, but I love Pistonheads vast knowledge on all queries automotive!)
Jump on seatcupra.net, number of guys did various different options on the 20vt on both Ibizas and Leons (Octavia in a summer dress), hybrid turbo as above, turbo kits, even engine swops. All of them are > £2000 once the turbo comes out. If I remember correctly one guy did a turbo kit for 2 or 3 grand but he did most of the work himself. At the least an intercooler, piping ( if not standard fit), remap and if the turbo does not fit the standard manifolds then custom manifolds, oil feed pipes, air intakes etc. never mind the labour cost and cost of the new turbo. It's just that the VRS Estates seem *such* good value, and it would be a shame not to coax a little more power! Still, at least if i ever need a Skoda Estate, i now know more about what they are capable of!Gassing Station | General Gassing [Archive] | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff