123D or Scirocco 170GT TDI
Discussion
I test drove a 123d .... and was really, really impressed. Superb driving position, super engine, great handling ... in fact it was far better than I ever imagined ! Build was also far better than my Mk 5 Golf GTi.
I haven't driven the Golf 170 TDi but guess it will be good. It is just not that extra bit special with a twin turbo engine that is under 7 secs to 60 ....
The only issue I have with the 123d is the looks as the Golf (Mk5 and Mk 6) both look good ...
I am sorely tempted though as the running costs are hugely less than my current car a Z4M Roadster and that is about to become an issue for me ...
I haven't driven the Golf 170 TDi but guess it will be good. It is just not that extra bit special with a twin turbo engine that is under 7 secs to 60 ....
The only issue I have with the 123d is the looks as the Golf (Mk5 and Mk 6) both look good ...
I am sorely tempted though as the running costs are hugely less than my current car a Z4M Roadster and that is about to become an issue for me ...
).I did have a test drive in a 123d hatch yesterday - just a couple of issues that may just be me or is it common?
The pedals did seem to be offset to the right, kept catching my foot on the rest rather than the clutch.
Also do people find the gears a bit hard to engage as I was struggling to get gears initially and not as smooth as I am used to. Is this the norm?
The pedals did seem to be offset to the right, kept catching my foot on the rest rather than the clutch.
Also do people find the gears a bit hard to engage as I was struggling to get gears initially and not as smooth as I am used to. Is this the norm?
MARDER said:
Struggling to decide on either a 123d of a Scirocco 170 GT TDI.
What are the good and bad points of the 123d ?
123d is 10 times the car of the VW. What you will need to look out for though is clutch judder!What are the good and bad points of the 123d ?
It will drive you mental if you get one with this problem unless you buy an auto.
Some have heavy clutch's and notchy gear changes and may suffer from a smooth take off due to a software upgrade that is used to stop judder but is really for some vibration at low revs from the crank. It ups the revs passed the vibration. Not nice!
Wife had a 116d msport with the above problems and she got a refund as they couldn't fix it. Couple of loan cars had same problem (not all).
We drove a Scirocco and a few others. Ended up back at BMW for 120d Msport. Would have been a used 123d coupe they had but it was out of budget by a fair bit.
120d has been 100% so far. Good gear change and light clutch. Very very happy.
To sum up. 1er all the way but buy used approved and some have stiff gear changes and heavy clutches. I don't know why a mass produced car would vary so much in this area but they do. Perhaps the stiff gear change and/or heavy clutch is a sign of a problem car?!?!
bmw.net for more info.
Edited by V8A*ndy on Tuesday 4th May 02:39
I have a 123 manual - and remapped to 245bhp/390 lb torque. Never had any clutch or gearbox trouble. Did a 500 mile round trip at the weekend - 48mpg at a steady 70mph on cruise control (gps speed).
I have also have an M6.......
........but I prefer driving the 123d, so there lies the answer to your decision!! Get 123d, lovely motor.
I have also have an M6.......
........but I prefer driving the 123d, so there lies the answer to your decision!! Get 123d, lovely motor.
MARDER said:
Thanks for your comments - I must admit I am a bit concerned that it is a gamble if you are paying £28k as to whether you have a good clutch or a bad one.
I liked the power delivery over the Scirocco but will that gearbox and clutch drive me mad?
Its a tough decision.
Have a look through my previous thread - may help you a little.I liked the power delivery over the Scirocco but will that gearbox and clutch drive me mad?
Its a tough decision.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... got this little beauty!
I'm not keen on the Scirocco's looks and the 170 TDI isn't anything special.
I much prefer the power delivery of the twin turbo 123d. And providing it is the coupe it looks nice too. Great chassis, and jaw dropping MPG if it matters, considering the performance.
I'd certainly go for the 123d.
I much prefer the power delivery of the twin turbo 123d. And providing it is the coupe it looks nice too. Great chassis, and jaw dropping MPG if it matters, considering the performance.
I'd certainly go for the 123d.
If looking at a 123d then test an auto, they all come with paddle shifts on the steering wheel.
The reason being is the speed it goes through the gears is pretty damned quick making a manual quick hard work on anything but a long motorway cruise.
Mine is mapped to 250bhp and does the sprint to 60mph in 6 seconds dead, while still returning 45mpg average.
Also, buy them 6 months old as they loose quite a chuck from new but then hardly anything over the next 3 years.
I have just agreed a trade in on mine as I need an estate for work, although I will buy a 130i, and I have got nearly all my money back a year later, and I bought it from a main dealer. if I had bought it new I would have lost £7000 even after a nice 10% discount.
The reason being is the speed it goes through the gears is pretty damned quick making a manual quick hard work on anything but a long motorway cruise.
Mine is mapped to 250bhp and does the sprint to 60mph in 6 seconds dead, while still returning 45mpg average.
Also, buy them 6 months old as they loose quite a chuck from new but then hardly anything over the next 3 years.
I have just agreed a trade in on mine as I need an estate for work, although I will buy a 130i, and I have got nearly all my money back a year later, and I bought it from a main dealer. if I had bought it new I would have lost £7000 even after a nice 10% discount.
gizlaroc said:
If looking at a 123d then test an auto, they all come with paddle shifts on the steering wheel.
The reason being is the speed it goes through the gears is pretty damned quick making a manual quick hard work on anything but a long motorway cruise.
Mine is mapped to 250bhp and does the sprint to 60mph in 6 seconds dead, while still returning 45mpg average.
Also, buy them 6 months old as they loose quite a chuck from new but then hardly anything over the next 3 years.
I have just agreed a trade in on mine as I need an estate for work, although I will buy a 130i, and I have got nearly all my money back a year later, and I bought it from a main dealer. if I had bought it new I would have lost £7000 even after a nice 10% discount.
Hmmmm.......perhaps I should have tried an auto too. 6 speed manual is fine, but I'm a lazy baaaaaasstad and I liked the paddles on my old 335d and 635d......The reason being is the speed it goes through the gears is pretty damned quick making a manual quick hard work on anything but a long motorway cruise.
Mine is mapped to 250bhp and does the sprint to 60mph in 6 seconds dead, while still returning 45mpg average.
Also, buy them 6 months old as they loose quite a chuck from new but then hardly anything over the next 3 years.
I have just agreed a trade in on mine as I need an estate for work, although I will buy a 130i, and I have got nearly all my money back a year later, and I bought it from a main dealer. if I had bought it new I would have lost £7000 even after a nice 10% discount.
I would reccommend the 123d, but I would as I bought one! I hear what people are saying about the clutch and gearbox, but having done many more miles on it it is much smoother and easier. The price difference is quite large but they are completely different cars.
As for comfort, I drove from Aberdeen to Oxford (via York) yesterday and it was fantastic. Took in some great country roads and motorways.
As for comfort, I drove from Aberdeen to Oxford (via York) yesterday and it was fantastic. Took in some great country roads and motorways.
Maybe the auto option would be an idea - although the price differential between the two is getting larger. I will have to price it up with auto.
I guess on a BMW forum I would expect praise for the 123 rather than the Scirocco but I must admit the power and delivery is swaying me towards the BMW I just wish the inside was a better place to be and the clutch/gearbox wasnt such an issue.
I guess on a BMW forum I would expect praise for the 123 rather than the Scirocco but I must admit the power and delivery is swaying me towards the BMW I just wish the inside was a better place to be and the clutch/gearbox wasnt such an issue.
What's with the clutch and gearbox? Mine's fine and dandy. 14,000 miles and no problems whatsoever.
Having just done a quick search on the BMW approved used website, there is only ONE available in the UK under 25 grand! It's grey with black leather, has a few options but absolutely hideous wheels.
I love autos but got a manual and have no regrets. It's your money though, so get busy making offers.....
Edited post to say 'there is only one AUTO 123D' on BMW website!
Having just done a quick search on the BMW approved used website, there is only ONE available in the UK under 25 grand! It's grey with black leather, has a few options but absolutely hideous wheels.
I love autos but got a manual and have no regrets. It's your money though, so get busy making offers.....
Edited post to say 'there is only one AUTO 123D' on BMW website!
Edited by Brewsters on Tuesday 4th May 20:05
the manual gearbox in the 123d is brilliant...
I got a '10 one in March, and was coming from an E92 M3... where the gearbox was very notchy by comparison.
I've done 1200 miles in the two months I've had mine, average mpg is 39mpg... which I'm really impressed with... yes it might not sound high, but in the E92 M3, I was getting 14.8mpg
This is in part due to me living in london, and also because its quite short geared, so at 90 leptons, its at almost 3000rpm or so in sixth.
crusing at 70mph will see 48+mpg. (did that on saturday going up to Silverstone)
Off to Germany next week for the nurburgring 24hr, so will see how it fairs on the autobahn
I got a '10 one in March, and was coming from an E92 M3... where the gearbox was very notchy by comparison.
I've done 1200 miles in the two months I've had mine, average mpg is 39mpg... which I'm really impressed with... yes it might not sound high, but in the E92 M3, I was getting 14.8mpg
This is in part due to me living in london, and also because its quite short geared, so at 90 leptons, its at almost 3000rpm or so in sixth.
crusing at 70mph will see 48+mpg. (did that on saturday going up to Silverstone)
Off to Germany next week for the nurburgring 24hr, so will see how it fairs on the autobahn
cpufreak said:
the manual gearbox in the 123d is brilliant...
I got a '10 one in March, and was coming from an E92 M3... where the gearbox was very notchy by comparison.
I've done 1200 miles in the two months I've had mine, average mpg is 39mpg... which I'm really impressed with... yes it might not sound high, but in the E92 M3, I was getting 14.8mpg
This is in part due to me living in london, and also because its quite short geared, so at 90 leptons, its at almost 3000rpm or so in sixth.
crusing at 70mph will see 48+mpg. (did that on saturday going up to Silverstone)
Off to Germany next week for the nurburgring 24hr, so will see how it fairs on the autobahn
I got a '10 one in March, and was coming from an E92 M3... where the gearbox was very notchy by comparison.
I've done 1200 miles in the two months I've had mine, average mpg is 39mpg... which I'm really impressed with... yes it might not sound high, but in the E92 M3, I was getting 14.8mpg
This is in part due to me living in london, and also because its quite short geared, so at 90 leptons, its at almost 3000rpm or so in sixth.
crusing at 70mph will see 48+mpg. (did that on saturday going up to Silverstone)
Off to Germany next week for the nurburgring 24hr, so will see how it fairs on the autobahn
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