Greek Default?
Discussion
Maybe I've not been paying enough attention but Greece appears to be getting some cheap loans from the EU and the IMF in return for raising taxes and cutting spending.
Why doesn't the Greek government (which is supposed to look after the interests of it's population not the organisation who have lent it money) go for some sort of default, rescheduling, write-downs or complete refusal to pay up?
If a few banks in France and German go the wall it's not Stavros' problem, lending has (and should) always be risky.
Why doesn't the Greek government (which is supposed to look after the interests of it's population not the organisation who have lent it money) go for some sort of default, rescheduling, write-downs or complete refusal to pay up?
If a few banks in France and German go the wall it's not Stavros' problem, lending has (and should) always be risky.
Good question.
Slightly O/T but on the sbject of Greece, I have been a bit incredulous at the level of rioting there, until I read some of the statements from Greek people - it's not that they object to or misunderstand the need for suts, but rather that they're f
king furious at teh corruption of the government which they beleive precipitated the issue. Fair point.
FWIW, I think a lot of Greeks feel the beast 'way out' is to revert to the Drachma.
Slightly O/T but on the sbject of Greece, I have been a bit incredulous at the level of rioting there, until I read some of the statements from Greek people - it's not that they object to or misunderstand the need for suts, but rather that they're f
king furious at teh corruption of the government which they beleive precipitated the issue. Fair point.FWIW, I think a lot of Greeks feel the beast 'way out' is to revert to the Drachma.
To my mind it's fairly outrageous that once a country is in a state that Greece has reached the government don't offer either elections or a referendum on possible ways forward. Clearly the lives of the Greek population are going to be hugely changed by the decisions that are going to be made so they should have a say in them.
Fittster said:
To my mind it's fairly outrageous that once a country is in a state that Greece has reached the government don't offer either elections or a referendum on possible ways forward.
Trouble is, who to vote for.Corruption is widespread and ingrained. The whole public sector and political system is riddled with cronyism, non-jobs and people taking back handers.
Fittster said:
Maybe I've not been paying enough attention but Greece appears to be getting some cheap loans from the EU and the IMF in return for raising taxes and cutting spending.
Why doesn't the Greek government (which is supposed to look after the interests of it's population not the organisation who have lent it money) go for some sort of default, rescheduling, write-downs or complete refusal to pay up?
If a few banks in France and German go the wall it's not Stavros' problem, lending has (and should) always be risky.
The Greek government is still spending more than it has coming in. If they default, then they wouldn't get any more funding. The results would be catasprophic. The generals would probably be back within a couple of days.Why doesn't the Greek government (which is supposed to look after the interests of it's population not the organisation who have lent it money) go for some sort of default, rescheduling, write-downs or complete refusal to pay up?
If a few banks in France and German go the wall it's not Stavros' problem, lending has (and should) always be risky.
The Euro would take an awful hammering. Spain, Portugal and Ireland would follow in days. Then the markets would turn their attention to the UK's problems.
It doesn't really bear thinking about.
Don
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Digga said:
Fittster said:
Trouble is, who to vote for.Corruption is widespread and ingrained. The whole public sector and political system is riddled with cronyism, non-jobs and people taking back handers.
Edited by Einion Yrth on Wednesday 5th May 12:34
Einion Yrth said:
Digga said:
Fittster said:
Trouble is, who to vote for.Corruption is widespread and ingrained. The whole public sector and political system is riddled with cronyism, non-jobs and people taking back handers.
Edited by Einion Yrth on Wednesday 5th May 12:34
Fittster said:
To my mind it's fairly outrageous that once a country is in a state that Greece has reached the government don't offer either elections or a referendum on possible ways forward. Clearly the lives of the Greek population are going to be hugely changed by the decisions that are going to be made so they should have a say in them.
Agree with you 100%, however as we've all seen from that pitiful excuse of a PM gordoom winky brown and the snivelling deluded idiots who voted labour, when politicians get the country they are running into this sort of mess, they are the first deluded fool to claim that only they can get the country back out of it......................... There are very few politicians who would openly admit to failure, which is the signal a election would give to the peopledon4l said:
Fittster said:
Maybe I've not been paying enough attention but Greece appears to be getting some cheap loans from the EU and the IMF in return for raising taxes and cutting spending.
Why doesn't the Greek government (which is supposed to look after the interests of it's population not the organisation who have lent it money) go for some sort of default, rescheduling, write-downs or complete refusal to pay up?
If a few banks in France and German go the wall it's not Stavros' problem, lending has (and should) always be risky.
The Greek government is still spending more than it has coming in. If they default, then they wouldn't get any more funding. The results would be catasprophic. The generals would probably be back within a couple of days.Why doesn't the Greek government (which is supposed to look after the interests of it's population not the organisation who have lent it money) go for some sort of default, rescheduling, write-downs or complete refusal to pay up?
If a few banks in France and German go the wall it's not Stavros' problem, lending has (and should) always be risky.
The Euro would take an awful hammering. Spain, Portugal and Ireland would follow in days. Then the markets would turn their attention to the UK's problems.
It doesn't really bear thinking about.
Don
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To the average greek who cares if your default takes down the Euro, French and German banks and cause other nations to default. That's not your problem. Why should you take all the pain while the lenders get away scot free.
Defaults don't appear to be that uncommon:
" Standard and Poor's reports 84 sovereign defaults from 1975 to 2002. The following is from their list of States (along with the dates) that defaulted either on their domestic debt, on their foreign debt, or on both. I've excluded cases like Mexico (1982-1990), where the default was not on government securities but on foreign-denominated bank debt, which shortens the list considerably. But some governments, like Argentina's have had more than one default.
Angola (1976), Argentina (1982, 1989-1990, 2002-04), Bolivia (1989-97), Brazil (1986-87, 1990), Congo (1979), Costa Rica (1984-85), Croatia (1993-96), Dominica (2003-04), Dominican Republic (1975-2001), Ecuador (1999-2000), El Salvador (1981-96), Gabon (1999-2004), Ghana (1979, 1982), Guatemala (1989), Ivory Coast (2000-04), Kuwait (1990-91), Madagascar (2002), Moldova (1998, 2002), Mongolia (1997-2000), Myanmar (1984, 1987), Nigeria (1996-88, 1992, 2002), Pakistan (1999), Panama (1987-94), Paraguay (2003-04), Russia (1998-99), Rwanda (1995), Sierra Leone (1997-98), Solomon Islands (1996-2004), Sri Lanka (1996), Sudan (1991), Ukraine (1998-2000), Venezuela (1995-97, 1998), Vietnam (1975), Yugoslavia (1992), Zimbabwe (1975-80)."
source
AndrewW-G said:
Fittster said:
To my mind it's fairly outrageous that once a country is in a state that Greece has reached the government don't offer either elections or a referendum on possible ways forward. Clearly the lives of the Greek population are going to be hugely changed by the decisions that are going to be made so they should have a say in them.
Agree with you 100%, however as we've all seen from that pitiful excuse of a PM gordoom winky brown and the snivelling deluded idiots who voted labour, when politicians get the country they are running into this sort of mess, they are the first deluded fool to claim that only they can get the country back out of it......................... There are very few politicians who would openly admit to failure, which is the signal a election would give to the peopleIf I was greek I'd be chucking around petrol bombs until the political elite gave me a say.
Fittster said:
Why doesn't the Greek government (which is supposed to look after the interests of it's population not the organisation who have lent it money) go for some sort of default, rescheduling, write-downs or complete refusal to pay up?
If a few banks in France and German go the wall it's not Stavros' problem, lending has (and should) always be risky.
If they do that no one will ever lend them money ever again in the size that any normal economy needs.....If a few banks in France and German go the wall it's not Stavros' problem, lending has (and should) always be risky.
The bailout is all about buying time so that all the French/German banks that are on the hook have enough time (2 or 3 years) to write down the loans before the restructuring.
Your sentiment about lending should always be risky is very, very true. Something our politicians should have done with people putting their life savings in the Icelandic Banks, Northern Rock etc....give them 90p in the pound back and they learn the lesson. People should ask themselves "why is this bank willing to give me ridiculously high interest rates" ?
Digga said:
Fittster said:
To my mind it's fairly outrageous that once a country is in a state that Greece has reached the government don't offer either elections or a referendum on possible ways forward.
Trouble is, who to vote for.Corruption is widespread and ingrained. The whole public sector and political system is riddled with cronyism, non-jobs and people taking back handers.
Skipppy said:
Digga said:
Fittster said:
To my mind it's fairly outrageous that once a country is in a state that Greece has reached the government don't offer either elections or a referendum on possible ways forward.
Trouble is, who to vote for.Corruption is widespread and ingrained. The whole public sector and political system is riddled with cronyism, non-jobs and people taking back handers.
Have we hit the £1T mark yet?
Tangent Police said:
Skipppy said:
Digga said:
Fittster said:
To my mind it's fairly outrageous that once a country is in a state that Greece has reached the government don't offer either elections or a referendum on possible ways forward.
Trouble is, who to vote for.Corruption is widespread and ingrained. The whole public sector and political system is riddled with cronyism, non-jobs and people taking back handers.
Have we hit the £1T mark yet?
Digga said:
Tangent Police said:
Skipppy said:
Digga said:
Fittster said:
To my mind it's fairly outrageous that once a country is in a state that Greece has reached the government don't offer either elections or a referendum on possible ways forward.
Trouble is, who to vote for.Corruption is widespread and ingrained. The whole public sector and political system is riddled with cronyism, non-jobs and people taking back handers.
Have we hit the £1T mark yet?
The order of the liabilities/income is so skewed, we are in a similar boat.
It's what's technically known as an allmighty f
king mess. Run!Beardy10 said:
If they do that no one will ever lend them money ever again in the size that any normal economy needs.....
The rest of us have to live within our means so why are governments different? I am totally ignorant of global economics so I can't understand why all this money is being lent to governments who will likely in the end go belly up. Do the banks expect them to default and aim to get back what they lent in interest so they can write off the initial loan?Digga said:
Much as I despise huge chunks of the UK establishment and public sector, in no way is it as corrupt as Greece. Beleive me.
We are not as squeaky clean as some would have us believe.I went to a local council planning commitee a few months back. It was absolutely shocking. Two groups of councillors sat apart from each other. On most of the applications, one group voted for, and the other against. At one point a clerk/secretary asked if anyone wanted to declare an interest in the next application. Silence. Next, the clerk asked a particular councillor if he had an interest. He said no. The clerk then read out a letter that proved that the councillor's wife owned a significant shareholding in the developer.
I was expecting the police to be called! But no. The councillor was simply asked to leave the room while that particular application was discussed. His mates all voted for the application.
The thing that really shocked me was that all the other councillors didn't seem surprised. This led me to the conclusion that they all had their snouts in one trough or another.
Don
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