PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION

[uk_vette]

Can it work, ?

Is it a more fair way of ensuring the person in number 10, is the person, most people voted for ?


I don't really understand, it except much than it gives each person 1 vote at which leader they want in at number 10.

The way I see it now, even if you have fewer of the population voting for you, you can still get to number 10, by virtue of the way the constituencies are made up and divided

'vette

Edited by uk_vette on Friday 7th May 10:25

Edited by uk_vette on Friday 7th May 14:08

[cs02rm0]

Not if it's implemented like the BBC's 'proportional' map. Otherwise, I think so.

[Davi]

uk_vette said:

The way I see it now, even if you have fewer of the population voting for you, you can still get to number 10, by virtue of the way the constiuencies are made up and divided

Party	Seats	Gain	Loss	Net	Votes	%	+/-%
Conservative	291	95	3	+92	10,213,492	36.0	+3.9
Labour	251	2	89	-87	8,307,487	29.3	-6.3
Liberal Democrat	52	8	13	-5	6,481,602	22.9	+1.0

Think this sums up our current system nicely. It sucks, big time, it needs radical overhaul, will it happen? Doubt it.

Edited by Davi on Friday 7th May 11:41

[Bee_Jay]

Well, the last time any party got more than 50% was back in 1931. So if you are asking for PR, then you are asking for the kind of uncertainty we have right now in perpetuity...

However, Cameron PM, Cable Chancellor, Clegg Home Secretary sounds quite good to me...

[SJobson]

STV is the only viable way, surely? With more than two parties the split of the vote means you're never going to have a majority.

[Bee_Jay]

STV does sound sensible.

[Andy Zarse]

Bee_Jay said:

Well, the last time any party got more than 50% was back in 1931. So if you are asking for PR, then you are asking for the kind of uncertainty we have right now in perpetuity...

However, Cameron PM, Cable Janitor, Clegg Home Secretary sounds quite good to me...

EFA

[elster]

Bee_Jay said:

Well, the last time any party got more than 50% was back in 1931. So if you are asking for PR, then you are asking for the kind of uncertainty we have right now in perpetuity...

However, Cameron PM, Cable Chancellor, Clegg Home Secretary sounds quite good to me...

With a coalition there is a 0% chance of Vince being Chancellor.

[F i F]

Davi said:

uk_vette said:

The way I see it now, even if you have fewer of the population voting for you, you can still get to number 10, by virtue of the way the constiuencies are made up and divided

Party	Seats	Gain	Loss	Net	Votes	%	+/-%
Conservative	291	95	3	+92	10,213,492	36.0	+3.9
Labour	251	2	89	-87	8,307,487	29.3	-6.3
Liberal Democrat	52	8	13	-5	6,481,602	22.9	+1.0

Think this sums up our current system nicely. It sucks, big time, it needs radical overhaul, will it happen? Doubt it.

Sorry to suggest somebody else doing some work, but it would be good to see that table updated with other parties. Ignore the loonies but include parties who might have enough of a vote count to get close to one seat and see how the House might be split up then.

Is there an analysis like that on any of the websites?

[Mr E]

F i F said:

Is there an analysis like that on any of the websites?

Back of fag paper calculations based on the vote distribution, straight PR and 650 seats gives UKIP 19-20 seats and the BNP 13 seats I think.

[elster]

F i F said:

Davi said:

uk_vette said:

The way I see it now, even if you have fewer of the population voting for you, you can still get to number 10, by virtue of the way the constiuencies are made up and divided

Party	Seats	Gain	Loss	Net	Votes	%	+/-%
Conservative	291	95	3	+92	10,213,492	36.0	+3.9
Labour	251	2	89	-87	8,307,487	29.3	-6.3
Liberal Democrat	52	8	13	-5	6,481,602	22.9	+1.0

Think this sums up our current system nicely. It sucks, big time, it needs radical overhaul, will it happen? Doubt it.

Sorry to suggest somebody else doing some work, but it would be good to see that table updated with other parties. Ignore the loonies but include parties who might have enough of a vote count to get close to one seat and see how the House might be split up then.

Is there an analysis like that on any of the websites?

There you go

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/result...

[Davi]

Party	Seats	Gain	Loss	Net	Votes	%	+/-%
Conservative	291	95	3	+92	10,213,492	36.0	+3.9
Labour	251	2	89	-87	8,307,487	29.3	-6.3
Liberal Democrat	52	8	13	-5	6,481,602	22.9	+1.0
Democratic Unionist Party	8	0	1	-1	168,216	0.6	-0.3
Scottish National Party	6	0	0	0	482,823	1.7	+0.1
Sinn Fein	4	0	0	0	150,638	0.5	-0.1
Plaid Cymru	3	1	0	+1	165,394	0.6	-0.1
Social Democratic & Labour Party	3	0	0	0	107,396	0.4	-0.1
Green	1	1	0	+1	269,866	1.0	-0.1
Alliance Party	1	1	0	+1	42,325	0.1	+0.0
UK Independence Party	0	0	0	0	871,958	3.1	+0.8
British National Party	0	0	0	0	542,387	1.9	+1.2
Ulster Conservatives and Unionists - New Force	0	0	1	-1	102,361	0.4	-0.1
English Democrats	0	0	0	0	64,499	0.2	+0.2
Traditional Unionist Voice	0	0	0	0	26,300	0.1
Respect-Unity Coalition	0	0	0	0	24,719	0.1	-0.1
Christian Party	0	0	0	0	17,261	0.1
Independent Community and Health Concern	0	0	1	-1	16,150 0.1	+0.0
Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition	0	0	0	0	12,275	0.0
Scottish Socialist Party	0	0	0	0	3,157	0.0	-0.2
Others	1	1	1	0	271,080	1.0	-0.2
				Turnout	28,341,386	65.0	4.0

There you go FiF...

or you can look here for updates

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/result...

[Halb]

uk_vette said:

Can it work, ?

Yes. A 2nd chamber made up of PR.

[FourWheelDrift]

Blair won previous election with less support if the above percentages are correct.

2005 - 35.2%

Edited by FourWheelDrift on Friday 7th May 12:32

[carreauchompeur]

Am glad to see that the BNP achieved no seats, however it's a little worrying that 542,387 people voted for them. Obviously the respectable veneer is working...

[F i F]

Thanks chaps so would it look like this based on current situation ie only 621 seats declared.

Party	FPTP	PR
Conservative	291	224
Labour	251	182
Liberal Democrat	52	142
Democratic Unionist Party	8	4
Scottish National Party	6	11
Sinn Fein	4	3
Plaid Cymru	3	4
Social Democratic & Labour Party	3	2
Green	1	6
Alliance Party	1	1
UK Independence Party	0	19
British National Party	0	12
Ulster Conservatives and Unionists - New Force	0	2
English Democrats	0	1
Traditional Unionist Voice	0	1
Respect-Unity Coalition	0	1
Christian Party	0	0
Independent Community and Health Concern	0	0
Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition	0	0
Scottish Socialist Party	0	0
Others	1	6
Total	621	621

Of course this may be utter tosh and simple PR may not work like that.
The phrase "like herding cats" comes to mind.

[Yeast Lord]

Greece has PR and they've done well for themselves haven't they lol. More complex bureaucratic processes is just what we need in a time when we need to cut costs. Cut the waste and brown's head off I say lol.

[Russ35]

Under PR who would each MP represent? If I have an issue who would I go to?

I currently know that I would contact my MP, Mark Menzies (Fylde).

[WEHGuy]

F i F said:

Thanks chaps so would it look like this based on current situation ie only 621 seats declared.

Party	FPTP	PR
Conservative	291	224
Labour	251	182
Liberal Democrat	52	142
Democratic Unionist Party	8	4
Scottish National Party	6	11
Sinn Fein	4	3
Plaid Cymru	3	4
Social Democratic & Labour Party	3	2
Green	1	6
Alliance Party	1	1
UK Independence Party	0	19
British National Party	0	12
Ulster Conservatives and Unionists - New Force	0	2
English Democrats	0	1
Traditional Unionist Voice	0	1
Respect-Unity Coalition	0	1
Christian Party	0	0
Independent Community and Health Concern	0	0
Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition	0	0
Scottish Socialist Party	0	0
Others	1	6
Total	621	621

Of course this may be utter tosh and simple PR may not work like that.
The phrase "like herding cats" comes to mind.

The smaller parties would probably get more votes aswell because people wouldn't think they were a wasted vote

[Size Nine Elm]

And more to the point, given that in each constituencies a number of people stand for office, why should a vote for one person in one constituency result in another person miles away being elected?

Ah yes, because they wear the same colour of tie...

So what happens to all the independent votes - do they club together and choose which 'independent' should be elected by PR?