Curious about Police related traffic accidents
Discussion
I just watched Brunstrom on BBC 1 talking about new policies for police chases.
The BBC stated that 1 in every ?(I almost missed this, but I think they said 5, although I can't believe this) deaths on the road was related to police vehicles. Can anyone shed any light on this figure?
If this is a large proportion of the total road deaths would it be right to assume that the majority were 'speeding' at the time of the accident - under pressure to get somewhere/chase someone - possibly speeding through built up areas? Also the criminal party being chased that obviously doesn't want to get caught being under pressure killing themselves? Do these count towards all the speed related figures that I see quoted here, or are they recorded in a different figure?
This 1:5 (if I have it right) would surely bias the speed related deaths figure against ordinary members of the publice who exceed the signed limits when safe to do so????
Sorry, this is all conjecture and may be a load of cr4p, but it just got me wondering......
The BBC stated that 1 in every ?(I almost missed this, but I think they said 5, although I can't believe this) deaths on the road was related to police vehicles. Can anyone shed any light on this figure?
If this is a large proportion of the total road deaths would it be right to assume that the majority were 'speeding' at the time of the accident - under pressure to get somewhere/chase someone - possibly speeding through built up areas? Also the criminal party being chased that obviously doesn't want to get caught being under pressure killing themselves? Do these count towards all the speed related figures that I see quoted here, or are they recorded in a different figure?
This 1:5 (if I have it right) would surely bias the speed related deaths figure against ordinary members of the publice who exceed the signed limits when safe to do so????
Sorry, this is all conjecture and may be a load of cr4p, but it just got me wondering......
).james_j said:
Add in the pretty high % of accidents that are down to tiredness, some down to drinking alcohol and those down to lack of skill and attention and you don't get many left just down to driving too fast do you?
yeah, and that's just the BiB after a long shift !!!!
only joking boys. 
Police Complaints Authority (an independent body that supervise the investigation of PolAcc's involving serious injury/death.)
Fiqures they have recently released of deaths involving chases:
4/03 - to date : 27
4/02 - 3/03 : 31
1997 - 1998 : 8
Whilst chase is not defined I would suspect that this includes responses to emergency calls.
Both PCA and ACPO are concerned about the numbers and are looking at the problem. In fact Humberside last year made a "no chase whatsover" policy but had to recind because of problems it caused.
DVD
Fiqures they have recently released of deaths involving chases:
4/03 - to date : 27
4/02 - 3/03 : 31
1997 - 1998 : 8
Whilst chase is not defined I would suspect that this includes responses to emergency calls.
Both PCA and ACPO are concerned about the numbers and are looking at the problem. In fact Humberside last year made a "no chase whatsover" policy but had to recind because of problems it caused.
DVD
Article about this in today's "Mail". As reported by David Williams and Andrew Levy
Of course it was headlined rather sensationally:
"KING OF SPEED CAMERAS DEFENDS DEATH-CHASE POLICE!"
Roadpeace's Jay Calascione condemned the intrepid weird one's response to the PCA's accusation that the police are costing lives and not saving lives by refusing to co-operate with investigations into ddeaths caused during a police pursuit. Mr B. blames it all on bureuacracy and paperwork! (probably the paperwork caused by issuing NIPs in Wales?) Mr Calascione says that this should be given "top priority as anything that leads to better understanding of how crashes occur has to be a good thing!" (How true! I agree with him! If this was so - maybe we would see a better, safer and more intelligent use of the dreaded speed camera! )
Stats quoted were per DVD's post, and PCS chairman, Sir Alistair Graham is quoted as saying that this is unacceptable, and that the police ignore their own guidelines, fail to learn lessons from it etc., etc.
Interestingly, the article claims that the PCA revealed that officers with basic driving skills, and not the elite trafpols are deployed in these "chases", and that the police forces are reticent to point of silence when asked for stats, costs and overall benefits on this.
Wonder why?
The PCA calls for more training, clearer guidelines and post-incident recommendations per article.
The article cites Brainstorm's patch as having 22.7% of all chases resulting in KSI collisions, and in all cases of KSIs the PCA has found evidence of "breaching safety policy"
The PCA's criticism co-incides with the ACPO's launch of its own guidelines into police pursuits, which calls for consistent national policy, driver training, tactical advisers, etc.
Of course it was headlined rather sensationally:
"KING OF SPEED CAMERAS DEFENDS DEATH-CHASE POLICE!"
Roadpeace's Jay Calascione condemned the intrepid weird one's response to the PCA's accusation that the police are costing lives and not saving lives by refusing to co-operate with investigations into ddeaths caused during a police pursuit. Mr B. blames it all on bureuacracy and paperwork! (probably the paperwork caused by issuing NIPs in Wales?
) Mr Calascione says that this should be given "top priority as anything that leads to better understanding of how crashes occur has to be a good thing!" (How true! I agree with him! If this was so - maybe we would see a better, safer and more intelligent use of the dreaded speed camera! ) Stats quoted were per DVD's post, and PCS chairman, Sir Alistair Graham is quoted as saying that this is unacceptable, and that the police ignore their own guidelines, fail to learn lessons from it etc., etc.
Interestingly, the article claims that the PCA revealed that officers with basic driving skills, and not the elite trafpols are deployed in these "chases", and that the police forces are reticent to point of silence when asked for stats, costs and overall benefits on this.
Wonder why? The PCA calls for more training, clearer guidelines and post-incident recommendations per article.
The article cites Brainstorm's patch as having 22.7% of all chases resulting in KSI collisions, and in all cases of KSIs the PCA has found evidence of "breaching safety policy"
The PCA's criticism co-incides with the ACPO's launch of its own guidelines into police pursuits, which calls for consistent national policy, driver training, tactical advisers, etc.
Dwight VanDriver said:
Police Complaints Authority (an independent body that supervise the investigation of PolAcc's involving serious injury/death.)
Fiqures they have recently released of deaths involving chases:
4/03 - to date : 27
4/02 - 3/03 : 31
1997 - 1998 : 8
Whilst chase is not defined I would suspect that this includes responses to emergency calls.
Both PCA and ACPO are concerned about the numbers and are looking at the problem. In fact Humberside last year made a "no chase whatsover" policy but had to recind because of problems it caused.
DVD
Here's a summary of some more official statistics I had to hand (the big number after the dates is all police accidents logged):
1994-95 17,948. These included 5,388 arising from pursuits and emergency calls which resulted in:
Two Police fatal injuries, 53 Police serious injuries, 19 Civilian fatal injuries, 56 Civilian serious injuries.
1997-98 16,946
1998-99 17,338
1999-00 18,068. Pursuit/follow fatalities 22, other RTI fatalities 9.
2000-01 19,266. Pursuit/follow fatalities 25, other RTI fatalities 6.
2001-02 16,826. Pursuit/follow fatalities 44, other RTI fatalities 8.
Further information on 2001-02:
Pursuit/follow fatalities 44 and 24 serious injuries (in 44 Pursuit/follow incidents).
Of the Pursuit/follow fatalities four were pedestrians and in 3 cases the police were responding to an emergency call.
Five were in another vehicle, not involved in the pursuit.
Of the other RTI fatalities 8 people died and nine were seriously injured in 15 incidents unrelated to pursuit by a police vehicle.
>> Edited by bogush on Saturday 6th March 10:18
bogush said:
Five were in another vehicle, not involved in the pursuit.
Eight people died and nine were seriously injured in 15 incidents unrelated to pursuit by a police vehicle.
Not sure I understand this. The police made a concious decision to engage in a pursuit. Are you saying that if the police decided not to engage in that pursuit that these accidents would have still have happened?
If so, what it he rationale for including them in the official stats?
If it just means that they were not the police vehicle or the pursued vehicle then it makes it makes no difference. The act of engaging in the pursuit resulted in the accident.
Reviewing the procedures and criteria for making the decision to pursue and the training and competance of those do it it is perfectly valid.
bluepolarbear said:
Five were in another vehicle, not involved in the pursuit.
Eight people died and nine were seriously injured in 15 incidents unrelated to pursuit by a police vehicle.
Not sure I understand this. The police made a concious decision to engage in a pursuit. Are you saying that if the police decided not to engage in that pursuit that these accidents would have still have happened?
If so, what it he rationale for including them in the official stats?
If it just means that they were not the police vehicle or the pursued vehicle then it makes it makes no difference. The act of engaging in the pursuit resulted in the accident.
Reviewing the procedures and criteria for making the decision to pursue and the training and competance of those do it it is perfectly valid.
Not sure what you're asking.
I'm merely quoting figures from various official reports.
Among the casualties of police pursuits in 2001-02 were five people in another vehicle, not involved in the pursuit.
Ie, as I read it, during a pursuit the police vehicle hit a third party vehicle not involved in the pursuit and caused the deaths of five people not involved in the pursuit.
Also in 2001-02 eight people died and nine were seriously injured by police vehicles in 15 non pursuit incidents.
bluepolarbear said:
Five were in another vehicle, not involved in the pursuit.
Eight people died and nine were seriously injured in 15 incidents unrelated to pursuit by a police vehicle.
Not sure I understand this........
I've edited my earlier post and it's possibly clearer now.
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