So, you're George Osborne and you've just read the books...
Discussion
What do you do?
Seems obvious to a relative simpleton like me that Great Britain PLC is hocked up to its eyeballs in debt.
"The public" don't seem to be able to handle or accept the truth, which is that the debt only gets paid back two ways: spend less, tax more.
So once again, you're Osborne, you have to do what needs to be done, but you're not going to be popular because of it, and what you have to do will probably make you unelectable in 5 years to the masses who simply don't "get it" and think money grows on trees and we can just keep on spending what we don't have.
What do you do?
Seems obvious to a relative simpleton like me that Great Britain PLC is hocked up to its eyeballs in debt.
"The public" don't seem to be able to handle or accept the truth, which is that the debt only gets paid back two ways: spend less, tax more.
So once again, you're Osborne, you have to do what needs to be done, but you're not going to be popular because of it, and what you have to do will probably make you unelectable in 5 years to the masses who simply don't "get it" and think money grows on trees and we can just keep on spending what we don't have.
What do you do?
Edited by paddyhasneeds on Saturday 15th May 16:04
paddyhasneeds said:
Puggit said:
Take a microscope to the benefits system. They're not going to vote Tory anyway, so f--k them.
I didn't so much mean where do you make the cuts, I mean how do you get the public as a whole to actually realise that there is absolutely no choice.Of course there is a minority who just don't get it, but they're never going to turn into your political allies, anyway- they don't believe in taking personal responsibility. They're the same type of people who still blame Thatcher for eveything they couldn't be arsed to do themselves.
paddyhasneeds said:
Puggit said:
Take a microscope to the benefits system. They're not going to vote Tory anyway, so f--k them.
I didn't so much mean where do you make the cuts, I mean how do you get the public as a whole to actually realise that there is absolutely no choice.I have friends from Wales/Scotland who will never forgive Maggie. They are educated, and have good jobs - but even they cannot accept the need for cuts.
So again, f--k em!
Deep breaths and a large scotch.
Then cut benefits, cut down on wastage within all departments. Ministry of Justice, NHS, Education, no more handouts to energy companies for building fans.
Then on the positive side you have to get large scale employers back into the UK. Light to heavy industry would be good. If we are subsidising the Chinese and Indian companies we want something UK based in return.
Legalise cannabis could generate a large chunk of income, as well as cutting down on spending for police and justice.
Government departments not to get bonus, you can't really set targets as a civil servant. Pay rise only based on performance and not on longevity.
Also a big thing would be to have someone with half a brain sort contracts out for tender, the IT installations for almost all government departments have gone into stupid amounts. Re branding of government departments cost a small fortune. No more buddy club system for tenders.
Just a few things off the top of my head.
Then cut benefits, cut down on wastage within all departments. Ministry of Justice, NHS, Education, no more handouts to energy companies for building fans.
Then on the positive side you have to get large scale employers back into the UK. Light to heavy industry would be good. If we are subsidising the Chinese and Indian companies we want something UK based in return.
Legalise cannabis could generate a large chunk of income, as well as cutting down on spending for police and justice.
Government departments not to get bonus, you can't really set targets as a civil servant. Pay rise only based on performance and not on longevity.
Also a big thing would be to have someone with half a brain sort contracts out for tender, the IT installations for almost all government departments have gone into stupid amounts. Re branding of government departments cost a small fortune. No more buddy club system for tenders.
Just a few things off the top of my head.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The best way to build confidence (not necessarily the quickest) is to have a Government obsessed with honesty. The problem over the past 13 years has been a total lack of incentive to avoid f*ck ups; if you make a cock up, it'll just be spun and forgotten.OK, being realistic, politicians can only influence and make their points by presenting things in the way that best suits them, but that can and should stop short of downright lies.
If those in power know a proper f*ck up will be treated as such, rather than brushed under the carpet, you then have an incentive to avoid getting it wrong in the first place.
Without some semblance of honesty, it's going to be very difficult to disagree with the 'they're all the same' argument that many believe.
piquet said:
Invite in independent auditors, do a complete audit including PFI and unfunded pensions, publish it and present the full data to the public
pass a law so that it has to be repeated in the year prior to elections, like a financial report of the incumbent government
If they did an independent audit then they would be accused of straight away awarding contracts to their mates; Jobs for the boys etc. I don't know how much one of the big firms charge for a full audit of the government, but I imagine it wouldn't be cheap. Not saying this is what I think, but it's how some people would view it.pass a law so that it has to be repeated in the year prior to elections, like a financial report of the incumbent government
Puggit said:
Time to tell the public sector, their final salary pension schemes have just stopped.
For the good of the country, you see...
50% tax on bonuses, 50% increase in company car tax, crack down on VAT fiddling using receipts form non-work purposes, crack down on tax avoidance by non-PAYE workers....For the good of the country, you see...
For the good of the country, you see....
(Easy to talk b@llocks isn't it!)
I suspect that most people will suggest that you cut benefits that they are not in receipt of and raise taxes that will not affect them.
I don't think George Osborne has to do anything other than make sure he does things in a fare and even handed manor. As long as the pain is seen to be shared equally the bulk of the people will understand.
I think what is proposed is good so far. Raise VAT - better to tax consumption than wages. Reset capital gains tax to pre new labour i.e. based on your current taxable rate - Lets be honest, any other form of earnings is taxed at this level. Get rid of child trust funds - I have a baby and even I thought that was a waste of money. Look critically at child tax credits for people who are reasonably well off.
In addition Look carefully at the unemployment/incapacity benefits system - there are many people who are entitled to this money (and no they don't get too much) but there are some who aren't. Look into the practice of well off people employing accountants to exploit tax loop holes - I don't like benefit cheats but I also don't like people who seem to think that circumvention of the tax systems is acceptable- both are ripping the rest of us off.
Hopefully some of these measures will have the knock on effect of forcing a price correction in the housing market. It should be entirely possible to buy an average house while earning an average wage without the requirement for two wages comming in. After all when you start to hit the tax credit system then you will start to see less mothers returning to work and people simply won't be able to keep propping up the stupidly inflated prices we currently see. Also increased capital gains tax on those buying and selling houses for profit should put some of them off. Here's hoping at any rate
I don't think George Osborne has to do anything other than make sure he does things in a fare and even handed manor. As long as the pain is seen to be shared equally the bulk of the people will understand.
I think what is proposed is good so far. Raise VAT - better to tax consumption than wages. Reset capital gains tax to pre new labour i.e. based on your current taxable rate - Lets be honest, any other form of earnings is taxed at this level. Get rid of child trust funds - I have a baby and even I thought that was a waste of money. Look critically at child tax credits for people who are reasonably well off.
In addition Look carefully at the unemployment/incapacity benefits system - there are many people who are entitled to this money (and no they don't get too much) but there are some who aren't. Look into the practice of well off people employing accountants to exploit tax loop holes - I don't like benefit cheats but I also don't like people who seem to think that circumvention of the tax systems is acceptable- both are ripping the rest of us off.
Hopefully some of these measures will have the knock on effect of forcing a price correction in the housing market. It should be entirely possible to buy an average house while earning an average wage without the requirement for two wages comming in. After all when you start to hit the tax credit system then you will start to see less mothers returning to work and people simply won't be able to keep propping up the stupidly inflated prices we currently see. Also increased capital gains tax on those buying and selling houses for profit should put some of them off. Here's hoping at any rate
Edited by Devil2575 on Saturday 15th May 17:44
I would go on television (prime time, make sure its on a lot of channels) and using simple terms explain what the last 12 years has done to the country.
I would give good examples of overspends, PFi deals gone wrong, amounts spent on consultants, depth of the spending on Europe and such like.
I would then make sure the watchers knew that I and my new Government were not the cause of these problems and that if we as a nation do not pull together and stop wasting money we are going to be in the s
t.
Its no good taxing more, people don't like it and the public who do work are squeezed plenty already, in fact there is a school of thought that suggests that taxing less gives people more money to spend.
Try and kick start a return to manufacture, Dyson and the like sodded off abroad because its cheaper, make deals with businesses who employ people, cut them a tax break for employing people, that put folk back working and wages and tax paid by them.
Make it hard to be on benefits, make the joke of a system better so lazy slack bds cannot be idle forever and spawn other idle bds.
BUT, crack down on the Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury tax dodges, offshore accounts and multiple tesco companies leasing stores to other tesco companies is a dodge plain and simple and these companies are making billions a year.
I would give good examples of overspends, PFi deals gone wrong, amounts spent on consultants, depth of the spending on Europe and such like.
I would then make sure the watchers knew that I and my new Government were not the cause of these problems and that if we as a nation do not pull together and stop wasting money we are going to be in the s
t.Its no good taxing more, people don't like it and the public who do work are squeezed plenty already, in fact there is a school of thought that suggests that taxing less gives people more money to spend.
Try and kick start a return to manufacture, Dyson and the like sodded off abroad because its cheaper, make deals with businesses who employ people, cut them a tax break for employing people, that put folk back working and wages and tax paid by them.
Make it hard to be on benefits, make the joke of a system better so lazy slack b
ds cannot be idle forever and spawn other idle bds.BUT, crack down on the Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury tax dodges, offshore accounts and multiple tesco companies leasing stores to other tesco companies is a dodge plain and simple and these companies are making billions a year.
Devil2575 said:
In addition Look carefully at the unemployment/incapacity benefits system - there are some people who are entitled to this money (and no they don't get too much) but there are many who aren't. Look into the practice of well off people employing accountants to exploit tax loop holes - I don't like benefit cheats but I also don't like people who seem to think that circumvention of the tax systems is acceptable- both are ripping the rest of us off.
Edited slightly...Dunk76 said:
Devil2575 said:
In addition Look carefully at the unemployment/incapacity benefits system - there are some people who are entitled to this money (and no they don't get too much) but there are many who aren't. Look into the practice of well off people employing accountants to exploit tax loop holes - I don't like benefit cheats but I also don't like people who seem to think that circumvention of the tax systems is acceptable- both are ripping the rest of us off.
Edited slightly...Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff