UK debt solution
Discussion
List a vehicle whereby tax payers can buy units.
No minimum, bit some form of maximum.
Units cost £1,000.
Each unit entitles the owner to some form of sensible/moderate incentive/benefit.
Can be multiple types of unit offering different incentives.
Units cannot be cashed or transfered. Have no value upon death. Incentives linked to the unit is for the lifetime of the owner.
Cash raised from unit sales to offset deficit.
An example:
You could buy units to cap your tax rate for a period of time.
i.e
x number of units to cap your income taxt at basic rate for 5 years.
y number of units to cap your tax at 10% for life.
z number of units to ensure a place for your child at the school of your choice.
x number of units to hold a document that exempts you or your company (smaller) from tax in one tax year of your chosing.
tax back on fuel, discount on council tax, queue jumping on NHS...
You could only sign up to one option but you would also be allowed to assign that option to a non-related 3rd party for charitable purposes, i.e buy units to help a child through school or similar.
etc etc.
To bring the books back by £100bln you would offer a broad spectrum of social incentives in order to sell just 100M units.
To all intents and purposes the concept would be that those with money are volountarily paying off the national debt but recieving a series of 'perks' based on how much they contribute. And the poorer, who are mathmatically the bulk of the population do not get punished or over taxed for the actions of Gordon Brown.
They could be called Gordon Brown Units after the
who destroyed this country.
No minimum, bit some form of maximum.
Units cost £1,000.
Each unit entitles the owner to some form of sensible/moderate incentive/benefit.
Can be multiple types of unit offering different incentives.
Units cannot be cashed or transfered. Have no value upon death. Incentives linked to the unit is for the lifetime of the owner.
Cash raised from unit sales to offset deficit.
An example:
You could buy units to cap your tax rate for a period of time.
i.e
x number of units to cap your income taxt at basic rate for 5 years.
y number of units to cap your tax at 10% for life.
z number of units to ensure a place for your child at the school of your choice.
x number of units to hold a document that exempts you or your company (smaller) from tax in one tax year of your chosing.
tax back on fuel, discount on council tax, queue jumping on NHS...
You could only sign up to one option but you would also be allowed to assign that option to a non-related 3rd party for charitable purposes, i.e buy units to help a child through school or similar.
etc etc.
To bring the books back by £100bln you would offer a broad spectrum of social incentives in order to sell just 100M units.
To all intents and purposes the concept would be that those with money are volountarily paying off the national debt but recieving a series of 'perks' based on how much they contribute. And the poorer, who are mathmatically the bulk of the population do not get punished or over taxed for the actions of Gordon Brown.
They could be called Gordon Brown Units after the
who destroyed this country.
so im not reading any further! Surely a flaw is that anyone buying a "unit" would want to receive more money back in benefits than they paid out, therefore the government would have increased the amount of debt, not reduced it. It's basically more borrowing.
Also, the deficit is the annual overspend, you'd have to sell these 100M units every year until the deficit was reduced down by growth and inflation.
Also, the deficit is the annual overspend, you'd have to sell these 100M units every year until the deficit was reduced down by growth and inflation.
DonkeyApple said:
Units cannot be cashed or transfered. Have no value upon death. Incentives linked to the unit is for the lifetime of the owner.
The missus would be pretty pissed off if I'd invested a couple of million (for tax breaks etc) only to get run over by a bus the following day. DonkeyApple said:
Cash raised from unit sales to offset deficit.
An example:
You could buy units to cap your tax rate for a period of time.
i.e
x number of units to cap your income taxt at basic rate for 5 years.
y number of units to cap your tax at 10% for life.
z number of units to ensure a place for your child at the school of your choice.
x number of units to hold a document that exempts you or your company (smaller) from tax in one tax year of your chosing.
tax back on fuel, discount on council tax, queue jumping on NHS...
You could only sign up to one option but you would also be allowed to assign that option to a non-related 3rd party for charitable purposes, i.e buy units to help a child through school or similar.
etc etc.
To bring the books back by £100bln you would offer a broad spectrum of social incentives in order to sell just 100M units.
To all intents and purposes the concept would be that those with money are volountarily paying off the national debt but recieving a series of 'perks' based on how much they contribute. And the poorer, who are mathmatically the bulk of the population do not get punished or over taxed for the actions of Gordon Brown.
They could be called Gordon Brown Units after the who destroyed this country.
Sounds similar to the old 'War Bonds' in some ways.An example:
You could buy units to cap your tax rate for a period of time.
i.e
x number of units to cap your income taxt at basic rate for 5 years.
y number of units to cap your tax at 10% for life.
z number of units to ensure a place for your child at the school of your choice.
x number of units to hold a document that exempts you or your company (smaller) from tax in one tax year of your chosing.
tax back on fuel, discount on council tax, queue jumping on NHS...
You could only sign up to one option but you would also be allowed to assign that option to a non-related 3rd party for charitable purposes, i.e buy units to help a child through school or similar.
etc etc.
To bring the books back by £100bln you would offer a broad spectrum of social incentives in order to sell just 100M units.
To all intents and purposes the concept would be that those with money are volountarily paying off the national debt but recieving a series of 'perks' based on how much they contribute. And the poorer, who are mathmatically the bulk of the population do not get punished or over taxed for the actions of Gordon Brown.
They could be called Gordon Brown Units after the
who destroyed this country.DonkeyApple said:
They could be called Gordon Brown Units after the who destroyed this country.
You could also call them MTF units - Mortgage the future. who destroyed this country.Long term it solves nothing, as it will reduce income in future years.
You're not Gordon Brown in disguise? It seems like one of his genius ideas.
Snoggledog said:
DonkeyApple said:
Units cannot be cashed or transfered. Have no value upon death. Incentives linked to the unit is for the lifetime of the owner.
The missus would be pretty pissed off if I'd invested a couple of million (for tax breaks etc) only to get run over by a bus the following day. DonkeyApple said:
Cash raised from unit sales to offset deficit.
An example:
You could buy units to cap your tax rate for a period of time.
i.e
x number of units to cap your income taxt at basic rate for 5 years.
y number of units to cap your tax at 10% for life.
z number of units to ensure a place for your child at the school of your choice.
x number of units to hold a document that exempts you or your company (smaller) from tax in one tax year of your chosing.
tax back on fuel, discount on council tax, queue jumping on NHS...
You could only sign up to one option but you would also be allowed to assign that option to a non-related 3rd party for charitable purposes, i.e buy units to help a child through school or similar.
etc etc.
To bring the books back by £100bln you would offer a broad spectrum of social incentives in order to sell just 100M units.
To all intents and purposes the concept would be that those with money are volountarily paying off the national debt but recieving a series of 'perks' based on how much they contribute. And the poorer, who are mathmatically the bulk of the population do not get punished or over taxed for the actions of Gordon Brown.
They could be called Gordon Brown Units after the who destroyed this country.
Sounds similar to the old 'War Bonds' in some ways.An example:
You could buy units to cap your tax rate for a period of time.
i.e
x number of units to cap your income taxt at basic rate for 5 years.
y number of units to cap your tax at 10% for life.
z number of units to ensure a place for your child at the school of your choice.
x number of units to hold a document that exempts you or your company (smaller) from tax in one tax year of your chosing.
tax back on fuel, discount on council tax, queue jumping on NHS...
You could only sign up to one option but you would also be allowed to assign that option to a non-related 3rd party for charitable purposes, i.e buy units to help a child through school or similar.
etc etc.
To bring the books back by £100bln you would offer a broad spectrum of social incentives in order to sell just 100M units.
To all intents and purposes the concept would be that those with money are volountarily paying off the national debt but recieving a series of 'perks' based on how much they contribute. And the poorer, who are mathmatically the bulk of the population do not get punished or over taxed for the actions of Gordon Brown.
They could be called Gordon Brown Units after the
who destroyed this country.Effectively, you would be selling a % of future tax receipts of the wealthy in order to balance the books today.
An OP mentioned that it would be shifting borrowing, this wouldn't be the case unless someone was buying a unit on a credit card. They would be strictly cash and aimed solely at those who had cash in order to benefit those who did not, ie those who would need to borrow to take part.
MX7 said:
So if you're rich enough, you'd pay tax at 10% for life, your kid would go to the school you want, you would get tax back on fuel, discount on council tax, and preferential NHS treatment?
Nope. You'd only be able to make one single, one off purchase of one type of unit. And you could nominate another entity to recieve that benefit, thus making it a charitable option.Edited by MX7 on Monday 17th May 15:52
Mattt said:
DonkeyApple said:
They could be called Gordon Brown Units after the who destroyed this country.
You could also call them MTF units - Mortgage the future. who destroyed this country.Long term it solves nothing, as it will reduce income in future years.
You're not Gordon Brown in disguise? It seems like one of his genius ideas.
We really are totally skrewed in the UK and everyone is going to be paying for the rest of their lives for the last 13 years.
Some form of system whereby the % of the population who can afford to do so are incentivised to invest in paying down the national debt asap has to be logical.
The instant savings on the interest the UK is currently paying (which will increase if we are downgraded) will offset any loss of potential tax earnings from this group in future years.
It would need to be packaged along the lines of a patriotic act as much as possible so as to carry the minimum of premium to the buyer.
DonkeyApple said:
MX7 said:
So if you're rich enough, you'd pay tax at 10% for life, your kid would go to the school you want, you would get tax back on fuel, discount on council tax, and preferential NHS treatment?
Nope. You'd only be able to make one single, one off purchase of one type of unit. And you could nominate another entity to recieve that benefit, thus making it a charitable option.Edited by MX7 on Monday 17th May 15:52
IF the rich take off the tax burden on EVERYONE by paying cash today to balance OUR books, then why bother what they get in return? NOTHING is free!!! Even the benefits are paid by some worker in the pvt sector!
Two main reasons why this won't work:
1 - It's essentially a legalised form of bribary where 'perks' from Gov depts are available for cash. This would NEVER be acceptable in the UK.
2 - As mentioned above, the buyers of these Units would be economically aware and would not spend more money on the unit than its worth. i.e. 10% tax for life would have to save more money than the cost else it's not worth doing and no one will buy them. On the other hand if it is 'worth doing' that implies that the total cost to the individual is reduced, and the Gov deficit will increase.
An interesting idea, but probably not workable.
As a 'spin off' idea, what about getting some perks which don't cost the Gov much but can be made available to the highest bidder - then make rich people bid for them. Things like relaxed planning laws and the like. Costs the Gov nothing but could be a money spinner. This would have the potential downside of creating a 'two tier' system, and also that people living near the developments (for example) would be up in arms about a planning proposal being approved because of this 'donation/bribe/tax/bid' which would otherwise have been denied. The community will be aggrieved. Hmm, ok, so need to find something to sell which costs nothing and doesn't cause outrage in any significant sector of the general population...
Answers on a postcard.
1 - It's essentially a legalised form of bribary where 'perks' from Gov depts are available for cash. This would NEVER be acceptable in the UK.
2 - As mentioned above, the buyers of these Units would be economically aware and would not spend more money on the unit than its worth. i.e. 10% tax for life would have to save more money than the cost else it's not worth doing and no one will buy them. On the other hand if it is 'worth doing' that implies that the total cost to the individual is reduced, and the Gov deficit will increase.
An interesting idea, but probably not workable.
As a 'spin off' idea, what about getting some perks which don't cost the Gov much but can be made available to the highest bidder - then make rich people bid for them. Things like relaxed planning laws and the like. Costs the Gov nothing but could be a money spinner. This would have the potential downside of creating a 'two tier' system, and also that people living near the developments (for example) would be up in arms about a planning proposal being approved because of this 'donation/bribe/tax/bid' which would otherwise have been denied. The community will be aggrieved. Hmm, ok, so need to find something to sell which costs nothing and doesn't cause outrage in any significant sector of the general population...
Answers on a postcard.
Size Nine Elm said:
Perhaps these units could be simplified. Maybe just pay you a rate of interest in return? And then you getyour capital back too after a fixed period.
And you could print out nice certificates with gold edges to show you'd bought these units too!
Bet nobody thought of that before.
Govt would still have the debt on it's book thus making the situation worse.And you could print out nice certificates with gold edges to show you'd bought these units too!
Bet nobody thought of that before.
Looking for a solution which would reduce Govt debt and protect the UK rating and future recovery.
The rich have the means to balance the books but instead of aggressive taxation and cuts that will target everyone in the UK create a system where people with spare cash can buy a series of specific benefits for use now or in the future. This would impact future tax reciepts, but not by much if structured properly and would be offset by the instant drop in debt service costs the cash would clear.
DonkeyApple said:
Govt would still have the debt on it's book thus making the situation worse.
Irrelevant.What you're suggesting is something that brings in cash now, but costs later. Same thing. Being on the books or not does not affect the level of debt/liability in the real world.
e.g. The Civil Service pensions deficit really exists, even though its not on the books.
Do you not imagine that our credit rating will not be affected by bringing in £100bn now, but knowing we will bring in £150bn less over the next 10 years?
It could work - essentially you are playing off different return periods and expectations.
The problem is that the discount rate (required return) of the individual would be greater than the government gilt rate, so the back end of the investment wouldn't be worth much to the buyer, but would cost the seller alot.
I guess the best bet might be some form of annuity product (?index linked) where the investor gets a cash sum bonus/additional inheritance tax relief in the future in return for worse short term rates. This would spread the cost of the debt our over the long term and reduce the front end cost.
The problem is that the discount rate (required return) of the individual would be greater than the government gilt rate, so the back end of the investment wouldn't be worth much to the buyer, but would cost the seller alot.
I guess the best bet might be some form of annuity product (?index linked) where the investor gets a cash sum bonus/additional inheritance tax relief in the future in return for worse short term rates. This would spread the cost of the debt our over the long term and reduce the front end cost.
Size Nine Elm said:
DonkeyApple said:
Govt would still have the debt on it's book thus making the situation worse.
Irrelevant.What you're suggesting is something that brings in cash now, but costs later. Same thing. Being on the books or not does not affect the level of debt/liability in the real world.
e.g. The Civil Service pensions deficit really exists, even though its not on the books.
Do you not imagine that our credit rating will not be affected by bringing in £100bn now, but knowing we will bring in £150bn less over the next 10 years?
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