What comback - if any?
Discussion
Hi chaps.
Need a bit of a general feeling here as well as any hard evidence of how things should work.
A mate of mine has recently bought a classic car from a classic dealer in the East Anglia region.
Its his dream car, so you can imagine the heartache when he was concerned about lumpy running, and got it checked at a local garage who have informed him the head gasket has gone and will need sorting properly - which Im guessing will be a bill of between 500 - 1000, maybe more!?
Now, my mate doesnt have the money to just go and get this done, so as the car has been bought from a dealer, does he have any comeback on a fairly major issue such as this? Is there a set warranty a dealer must offer on a sale of any vehicle sold with tax, mot and alledgedly roadworthy?
Sorry for the lack of real detail but its someone who has been around on PH and is in a bit of a pickle with this - He's not very well off, managed to sell a few things to achieve the dream (on a very minor scale - car value less than 1500 quid), and it seems to have come back and bitten him on the @r$e...
So what are his options if any?
Thanks in advance
Need a bit of a general feeling here as well as any hard evidence of how things should work.
A mate of mine has recently bought a classic car from a classic dealer in the East Anglia region.
Its his dream car, so you can imagine the heartache when he was concerned about lumpy running, and got it checked at a local garage who have informed him the head gasket has gone and will need sorting properly - which Im guessing will be a bill of between 500 - 1000, maybe more!?
Now, my mate doesnt have the money to just go and get this done, so as the car has been bought from a dealer, does he have any comeback on a fairly major issue such as this? Is there a set warranty a dealer must offer on a sale of any vehicle sold with tax, mot and alledgedly roadworthy?
Sorry for the lack of real detail but its someone who has been around on PH and is in a bit of a pickle with this - He's not very well off, managed to sell a few things to achieve the dream (on a very minor scale - car value less than 1500 quid), and it seems to have come back and bitten him on the @r$e...
So what are his options if any?
Thanks in advance
DKL said:
Am I right in saying that any car bought from a registered dealer has a 3 month warantee?
Well, last year a local Main Volvo Dealer was giving a 1 Month Waranty on a 4 year old 16k XC90!He should speak to the dealer though but what warranty did it come with ? Did he ask about such a thing ? if not well he should have !
Hope it gets sorted with as little pain for him as possible.
CO2000 said:
DKL said:
Am I right in saying that any car bought from a registered dealer has a 3 month warantee?
Well, last year a local Main Volvo Dealer was giving a 1 Month Waranty on a 4 year old 16k XC90!
.With a £1500 car, it might be a case of compromise to minimise both sides' costs and share them out... but it's the answers to the questions others are asking above that will determine advice from here in
.To try and answer the main questions.
Its a dolomite sprint, bought for around the 12-1300 mark, a test drive (by the dealer himself) was given, and at the time there wasnt any immediate sign of under performance or rough running as such.
When he got the car home and checked a few more things more thoroughly, there was oil in one of the spark plug tubes, and it very quickly developed a rough idle and despite cleaning out the oil and changing plugs etc the running didnt improve.
despite being fairly familiar with this mark he decided to have it checked out at a local garage who have advised him about the head gasket problem.
Unfortunately this dealer (many moons ago), was difficult to persuade to do anything about an issue on another car - although this time the car as far as I can tell, has been sold as a roadworthy / working car (rather than a project or whatever) so my thoughts were as mentioned above 'That there should be a standard 3 month warranty included' - but what is that likely to cover, could the garage basically refuse to even look at it as the head gasket problem could be a syptom of the new owners use of the car, or regardless of this should he have some comeback. Its an old car afterall.
I hope for his sake that he has some genuine comeback on this as he simply doesnt have the funds to be shelling out of this type of work straight away, and as said its a realisation of a bit of a dream (yes I know its only a Dolly, but each to their own and all that).
The car has been in his possession for approx 2 weeks now I would say.
Ive encouraged him to give the dealer the facts and let him say what he intends to do about it, but I have a suspicion that he may find the situation mildly uncomfortable and could find himself getting rolled over without at least some official guidance on what he should be expecting or what his rights are.
Thanks for the responses so far - I'll forward on the link and let him have a look for himself
Its a dolomite sprint, bought for around the 12-1300 mark, a test drive (by the dealer himself) was given, and at the time there wasnt any immediate sign of under performance or rough running as such.
When he got the car home and checked a few more things more thoroughly, there was oil in one of the spark plug tubes, and it very quickly developed a rough idle and despite cleaning out the oil and changing plugs etc the running didnt improve.
despite being fairly familiar with this mark he decided to have it checked out at a local garage who have advised him about the head gasket problem.
Unfortunately this dealer (many moons ago), was difficult to persuade to do anything about an issue on another car - although this time the car as far as I can tell, has been sold as a roadworthy / working car (rather than a project or whatever) so my thoughts were as mentioned above 'That there should be a standard 3 month warranty included' - but what is that likely to cover, could the garage basically refuse to even look at it as the head gasket problem could be a syptom of the new owners use of the car, or regardless of this should he have some comeback. Its an old car afterall.
I hope for his sake that he has some genuine comeback on this as he simply doesnt have the funds to be shelling out of this type of work straight away, and as said its a realisation of a bit of a dream (yes I know its only a Dolly, but each to their own and all that).
The car has been in his possession for approx 2 weeks now I would say.
Ive encouraged him to give the dealer the facts and let him say what he intends to do about it, but I have a suspicion that he may find the situation mildly uncomfortable and could find himself getting rolled over without at least some official guidance on what he should be expecting or what his rights are.
Thanks for the responses so far - I'll forward on the link and let him have a look for himself
A911DOM said:
To try and answer the main questions.
Its a dolomite sprint, bought for around the 12-1300 mark, a test drive (by the dealer himself) was given, and at the time there wasnt any immediate sign of under performance or rough running as such.
When he got the car home and checked a few more things more thoroughly, there was oil in one of the spark plug tubes, and it very quickly developed a rough idle and despite cleaning out the oil and changing plugs etc the running didnt improve.
despite being fairly familiar with this mark he decided to have it checked out at a local garage who have advised him about the head gasket problem.
Unfortunately this dealer (many moons ago), was difficult to persuade to do anything about an issue on another car - although this time the car as far as I can tell, has been sold as a roadworthy / working car (rather than a project or whatever) so my thoughts were as mentioned above 'That there should be a standard 3 month warranty included' - but what is that likely to cover, could the garage basically refuse to even look at it as the head gasket problem could be a syptom of the new owners use of the car, or regardless of this should he have some comeback. Its an old car afterall.
I hope for his sake that he has some genuine comeback on this as he simply doesnt have the funds to be shelling out of this type of work straight away, and as said its a realisation of a bit of a dream (yes I know its only a Dolly, but each to their own and all that).
The car has been in his possession for approx 2 weeks now I would say.
Ive encouraged him to give the dealer the facts and let him say what he intends to do about it, but I have a suspicion that he may find the situation mildly uncomfortable and could find himself getting rolled over without at least some official guidance on what he should be expecting or what his rights are.
Thanks for the responses so far - I'll forward on the link and let him have a look for himself
He should have informed the dealer immediately. He should now attempt to reject the car & ask for his money back imo.Its a dolomite sprint, bought for around the 12-1300 mark, a test drive (by the dealer himself) was given, and at the time there wasnt any immediate sign of under performance or rough running as such.
When he got the car home and checked a few more things more thoroughly, there was oil in one of the spark plug tubes, and it very quickly developed a rough idle and despite cleaning out the oil and changing plugs etc the running didnt improve.
despite being fairly familiar with this mark he decided to have it checked out at a local garage who have advised him about the head gasket problem.
Unfortunately this dealer (many moons ago), was difficult to persuade to do anything about an issue on another car - although this time the car as far as I can tell, has been sold as a roadworthy / working car (rather than a project or whatever) so my thoughts were as mentioned above 'That there should be a standard 3 month warranty included' - but what is that likely to cover, could the garage basically refuse to even look at it as the head gasket problem could be a syptom of the new owners use of the car, or regardless of this should he have some comeback. Its an old car afterall.
I hope for his sake that he has some genuine comeback on this as he simply doesnt have the funds to be shelling out of this type of work straight away, and as said its a realisation of a bit of a dream (yes I know its only a Dolly, but each to their own and all that).
The car has been in his possession for approx 2 weeks now I would say.
Ive encouraged him to give the dealer the facts and let him say what he intends to do about it, but I have a suspicion that he may find the situation mildly uncomfortable and could find himself getting rolled over without at least some official guidance on what he should be expecting or what his rights are.
Thanks for the responses so far - I'll forward on the link and let him have a look for himself
Are you certain it's the head gasket, oil in the water, mayonaise and losing water?
The oil in the plug tube isn't from the head gasket, it's from a leak on the plug tube itself, a common problem which can lead to to plug breaking up. The rough idle could be the twin carbs or a number of other things, plug leads, distributor etc.
I'd get another opinion. I had a sprint once and replaced the head gasket twice.
The oil in the plug tube isn't from the head gasket, it's from a leak on the plug tube itself, a common problem which can lead to to plug breaking up. The rough idle could be the twin carbs or a number of other things, plug leads, distributor etc.
I'd get another opinion. I had a sprint once and replaced the head gasket twice.
redstu said:
Are you certain it's the head gasket, oil in the water, mayonaise and losing water?
The oil in the plug tube isn't from the head gasket, it's from a leak on the plug tube itself, a common problem which can lead to to plug breaking up. The rough idle could be the twin carbs or a number of other things, plug leads, distributor etc.
I'd get another opinion. I had a sprint once and replaced the head gasket twice.
Yep, see your point, and the owner is fully aware of the potential ailments these ol' girls tend to have (he's owned another sprint and several other dollys and triumphs over the years). The oil in the plug tube isn't from the head gasket, it's from a leak on the plug tube itself, a common problem which can lead to to plug breaking up. The rough idle could be the twin carbs or a number of other things, plug leads, distributor etc.
I'd get another opinion. I had a sprint once and replaced the head gasket twice.
The local garage explained to him what they had found and it pointed fairly conclusively to a head gasket failure. The spark plug issue has been sorted and the plug tubes have remained oil free... It didnt have the usual suspect mayo in the oil to my knowledge, but the garage seemed convinced from their investigations that the gasket was failing and complete failure could therefore follow.
I dont think my mate wants to consider giving the car back and get his money back (knowing him he would wish to battle through regardless), but he doesnt have the money to be ploughing in to a major job like this now so the car would just sit unused - which is exactly the point, it was bought in good faith as a useable classic that he could get out in with the kids and the mrs and undertake minor bodywork issues himself as they arise.
Thanks for the feedback so far. Does anyone know where there is some official wording / documentation relating to the '3 month standard warranty from a dealer' thing??? If we could lay our hands on this, at least it would give him the bargaining power to get at least some of the potential outlay covered.
A911DOM said:
Does anyone know where there is some official wording / documentation relating to the '3 month standard warranty from a dealer' thing??? If we could lay our hands on this, at least it would give him the bargaining power to get at least some of the potential outlay covered.
This might help.Good luck.
Arese said:
A911DOM said:
Does anyone know where there is some official wording / documentation relating to the '3 month standard warranty from a dealer' thing??? If we could lay our hands on this, at least it would give him the bargaining power to get at least some of the potential outlay covered.
This might help.Good luck.
honest john said:
The consumer complained that his car, a new Audi TT 3.2 litre V6, veered to the left and as such wanted to return the car to the dealer and be refunded.
Whilst an expert witness gave evidence supporting the consumers claim, the Court ruled that the vehicle was "of satisfactory quality" because the sensitivity of the car to camber was in fact normal for that type of car - the reasonable person would not consider that this would make the vehicle unsatisfactory.
hmm - dolly sprint with head gasket issues? sounds like 'normal for that type of car'Whilst an expert witness gave evidence supporting the consumers claim, the Court ruled that the vehicle was "of satisfactory quality" because the sensitivity of the car to camber was in fact normal for that type of car - the reasonable person would not consider that this would make the vehicle unsatisfactory.
Thanks Dom, I have just read what the jolly nice pistonheads fraternity have advised and I am going out to see the bloke tomorrow. Just one question mate, 'I know its just a Dolly Sprint'. You cheeky sod. These cars were the 1st production 16v engine, 1st to come standard with alloys and won numerous design awards for the engine. Sadly though, not the head gaskets!!!!
Your 911 will pay for this...........now, whats your Mums number again???? lol. A Daewoo Matiz exhaust coming right up..........
There is no sludge in the oil (or on the rather attractive BL styled oil filler cap) - my guess is that the gasket (if it has indeed failed) is between pistons 2 & 3, not into the waterjacket. This would explain much of the loss of power & rough running. I have spoken to Rimmer Bros, who have advised the non standard replacement thicker head-gasket, which I will endeavour to have fitted if this is indeed necessary.
I am going to check the tappet clearance this afternoon also, as this could also be a contributing factor.
My last Sprint (you remember "oh, let me take it for a spin so you can hear how good it sounds for yourself" - just before he took off on a speedbump and had to be collected on the outskirts of Norwich after crash landing several miles distant) - this car used to leak oil all over the shop and that had £5k spent on the mechanics / engine bringing it almost to works spec, with a very respectable 185bhp. The Broadspeed Sprints (it was reputed) had to have the heads welded to the blocks to avoid the constant head gasket failure they suffered with (as mentioned in Practical Classics this month). I will let you know what I discover - only problem is I wouldn't trust the old girl to get me the 25 miles necessary to take it back to the place whence it was purchased.
I should have known better chaps, I know these cars like the back of my hand and I concede I didn't examine it thoroughly as I normally would have done.
I will keep you posted........
ps. Sprint number 2 will most definately return to the road one day.
Your 911 will pay for this...........now, whats your Mums number again???? lol. A Daewoo Matiz exhaust coming right up..........
There is no sludge in the oil (or on the rather attractive BL styled oil filler cap) - my guess is that the gasket (if it has indeed failed) is between pistons 2 & 3, not into the waterjacket. This would explain much of the loss of power & rough running. I have spoken to Rimmer Bros, who have advised the non standard replacement thicker head-gasket, which I will endeavour to have fitted if this is indeed necessary.
I am going to check the tappet clearance this afternoon also, as this could also be a contributing factor.
My last Sprint (you remember "oh, let me take it for a spin so you can hear how good it sounds for yourself" - just before he took off on a speedbump and had to be collected on the outskirts of Norwich after crash landing several miles distant) - this car used to leak oil all over the shop and that had £5k spent on the mechanics / engine bringing it almost to works spec, with a very respectable 185bhp. The Broadspeed Sprints (it was reputed) had to have the heads welded to the blocks to avoid the constant head gasket failure they suffered with (as mentioned in Practical Classics this month). I will let you know what I discover - only problem is I wouldn't trust the old girl to get me the 25 miles necessary to take it back to the place whence it was purchased.
I should have known better chaps, I know these cars like the back of my hand and I concede I didn't examine it thoroughly as I normally would have done.
I will keep you posted........
ps. Sprint number 2 will most definately return to the road one day.
Mr Monza said:
ps. Sprint number 2 will most definately return to the road one day.
Is that the one being delivered in a dustpan and shoebox??? Shouldnt laugh, I did indeed have great fun in that somewhat tinkered Sprint of yours, and the look on peoples faces when the 'Grandpas Armchair' used to leave them in its dust...
Let us know how you get on with the garage chap
even when these cars were quite new they had head gasket problems, a friend of my dad used to race them in production saloons and head gasket problems,, warped heads, were common on the road cars, if it only cost £1200 it was too cheap to be true a good Sprint will be worth a fair bit more than that..
I was under absolutely no illusions whatsoever that the car would be A1 condition for the price I paid for it - indeed, I was well aware of some cosmetic corrosion issues. Sad thing is, when on a (very) limited budget, you know that you are going to get something that will need work. A really decent Sprint would be iro £3k and upwards.
Its just that the engine was the one thing I thought was ok (at least for the timebeing). On the test drive, she pulled like a train - although there were tappet-esque noises, which I thought would be a relatively simple fix.
As I already have an early 1850 undergoing resto with another Sprint joining the ranks on Thursday that needs copius work, I hoped that this one would limp on long enough to enable no.2 to be completed before no.1 needed to come off the road so that I would not again be Sprint-less.
C'est la vie!
Its just that the engine was the one thing I thought was ok (at least for the timebeing). On the test drive, she pulled like a train - although there were tappet-esque noises, which I thought would be a relatively simple fix.
As I already have an early 1850 undergoing resto with another Sprint joining the ranks on Thursday that needs copius work, I hoped that this one would limp on long enough to enable no.2 to be completed before no.1 needed to come off the road so that I would not again be Sprint-less.
C'est la vie!
Mr Monza said:
I was under absolutely no illusions whatsoever that the car would be A1 condition for the price I paid for it - indeed, I was well aware of some cosmetic corrosion issues. Sad thing is, when on a (very) limited budget, you know that you are going to get something that will need work. A really decent Sprint would be iro £3k and upwards.
Its just that the engine was the one thing I thought was ok (at least for the timebeing). On the test drive, she pulled like a train - although there were tappet-esque noises, which I thought would be a relatively simple fix.
As I already have an early 1850 undergoing resto with another Sprint joining the ranks on Thursday that needs copius work, I hoped that this one would limp on long enough to enable no.2 to be completed before no.1 needed to come off the road so that I would not again be Sprint-less.
C'est la vie!
Limited budgets and older cars are never a good relationship.Its just that the engine was the one thing I thought was ok (at least for the timebeing). On the test drive, she pulled like a train - although there were tappet-esque noises, which I thought would be a relatively simple fix.
As I already have an early 1850 undergoing resto with another Sprint joining the ranks on Thursday that needs copius work, I hoped that this one would limp on long enough to enable no.2 to be completed before no.1 needed to come off the road so that I would not again be Sprint-less.
C'est la vie!
If you really want a "classic' (or for that matter, any car that is out of warranty) then being able to fix it yourself, which means having the knowledge, space, time and equipment is pretty much essential. Unless you have sufficent spare disposable income to pay someone else.
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