123D SPORTS HATCH - IS IT ANY GOOD
Discussion
I have one, cracking all round car, the engine is a peach for a diesel. Obviously you don't get the high rev thrills of a good petrol but it revs like no other diesel Ive driven, pulling all the way to the red line with power delivery very similar to a turbocharged 4 pot petrol.
One thing I would say though, if you're looking for a motorway mile muncher then the auto box might be a better bet. The manual is quite low geared so 75 on the motorway is not far short of 2,500rpm. Its fine from a refinement point of view but does make economical motorway cruising a restrained affair, needing to keep it at 70 or less to see high 40s mpg, cruise at 80 and that will drop to low 40s. Away from the motorway though its fantastic, I do a 20 mile each way journey to work on rural A and B roads and even with enthusiastic driving when traffic allows, I get 45mpg pretty much guaranteed.
One thing I would say though, if you're looking for a motorway mile muncher then the auto box might be a better bet. The manual is quite low geared so 75 on the motorway is not far short of 2,500rpm. Its fine from a refinement point of view but does make economical motorway cruising a restrained affair, needing to keep it at 70 or less to see high 40s mpg, cruise at 80 and that will drop to low 40s. Away from the motorway though its fantastic, I do a 20 mile each way journey to work on rural A and B roads and even with enthusiastic driving when traffic allows, I get 45mpg pretty much guaranteed.
Edited by LocoBlade on Tuesday 18th May 22:14
Yup should be, and you always have the option to chip up to near 250bhp if it starts feeling slow 
One thing you might need to get used to though is the power delivery. The 1.9 PD VAG diesels like yours (I assume?) are very old school in the way they produce a whacking great lump of torque as the turbo kicks in which then tails off and gets almost asthmatic by the time the revs hit 3500. That kind of power delivery feels fast initially because of the sudden surge of torque, but its a bit of a trick of the mind and ultimately I found them frustrating to drive quickly. The 123d engine doesn't quite have that same initial kick so on first aquanitences can feel a bit underwhelming but it will pull hard from 1500rpm all the way to 4600rpm so you've got a far bigger range of revs to play with meaning acceleration is actually better. For example you can start an overtake with 3k on the dial in 3rd at just under 50mph because you've still got 1500rpm to play with. From my experience with my old chipped PD Bora, I'd never dream of doing that because by 3k it was already starting to run out of puff so you just had to ride the torque from 2k to make meaningful progress.
One thing you might need to get used to though is the power delivery. The 1.9 PD VAG diesels like yours (I assume?) are very old school in the way they produce a whacking great lump of torque as the turbo kicks in which then tails off and gets almost asthmatic by the time the revs hit 3500. That kind of power delivery feels fast initially because of the sudden surge of torque, but its a bit of a trick of the mind and ultimately I found them frustrating to drive quickly. The 123d engine doesn't quite have that same initial kick so on first aquanitences can feel a bit underwhelming but it will pull hard from 1500rpm all the way to 4600rpm so you've got a far bigger range of revs to play with meaning acceleration is actually better. For example you can start an overtake with 3k on the dial in 3rd at just under 50mph because you've still got 1500rpm to play with. From my experience with my old chipped PD Bora, I'd never dream of doing that because by 3k it was already starting to run out of puff so you just had to ride the torque from 2k to make meaningful progress.
Edited by LocoBlade on Tuesday 18th May 23:08
Definitely get an auto, the manual is very hard work around too too as it whips through the gears far too quickly.
http://www.adoddmotors.co.uk/GetDealer.do?did=2662...
My old car and a peach.
http://www.adoddmotors.co.uk/GetDealer.do?did=2662...
My old car and a peach.
the manual box in the 123d is a peach though... so slick compared to my old E92 M3.
123d will do >140mph all day... had a great trip to germany last week for the nurburgring 24hr ( photos here: http://pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... ).
Economy might be worse compared to your ibiza... as the 123d is short geared, so on a autobahn, if you're cruising at 89-90mph, it'll be doing around 3000rpm.. and you'll only get high thirties mpg.
but it's such a willing engine, as said on the thread already, it doesn't rev like a diesel.. its fun to drive, and plenty quick enough.
I've a Coupe, and think it looks lots better, but driving wise should handle fairly similarly to the hatch I think.
One thing, don't be tempted to go for 18" wheels... it ruins the ride and the handling.
mine is on 17" which I think look fine, too.
Essential options in my book are: Xenons + Adaptive headlights, Logic7, SatNav Pro, ipod adaptor, bluetooth.
123d will do >140mph all day... had a great trip to germany last week for the nurburgring 24hr ( photos here: http://pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... ).
Economy might be worse compared to your ibiza... as the 123d is short geared, so on a autobahn, if you're cruising at 89-90mph, it'll be doing around 3000rpm.. and you'll only get high thirties mpg.
but it's such a willing engine, as said on the thread already, it doesn't rev like a diesel.. its fun to drive, and plenty quick enough.
I've a Coupe, and think it looks lots better, but driving wise should handle fairly similarly to the hatch I think.
One thing, don't be tempted to go for 18" wheels... it ruins the ride and the handling.
mine is on 17" which I think look fine, too.
Essential options in my book are: Xenons + Adaptive headlights, Logic7, SatNav Pro, ipod adaptor, bluetooth.
LocoBlade said:
One thing I would say though, if you're looking for a motorway mile muncher then the auto box might be a better bet. The manual is quite low geared so 75 on the motorway is not far short of 2,500rpm.
Around 30mph per thousand in top doesn't sound especially long-legged for a diesel but anyone know what the auto pulls by way of comparison? I would have thought no more than 2,000rpm at 70mph but could well be wrong if the manual's anything to go by! Edited by LocoBlade on Tuesday 18th May 22:14
For some reason the manual 123d is actually shorter geared than the less powerful 118 and 120d courtesy of a shorter diff, I guess it's to further boost acceleration slightly but IMHO it would have been better with the slightly longer standard diff.
Regarding the 18" wheels, it really depends on what tyres you plan to use. If you intend to keep the runflats then 17" would probably be the way to go, but with proper tyres on there the ride on 18" is better than on 17s and runflats. looks wise obviously its entirely personal opinion but I think the 18s suit the car better and from looking at the amount of spokes on the 17s I suspect the larger wheels are significantly easier to clean!
Regarding the 18" wheels, it really depends on what tyres you plan to use. If you intend to keep the runflats then 17" would probably be the way to go, but with proper tyres on there the ride on 18" is better than on 17s and runflats. looks wise obviously its entirely personal opinion but I think the 18s suit the car better and from looking at the amount of spokes on the 17s I suspect the larger wheels are significantly easier to clean!
I,ve had my 123d for around 6 weeks now and am loving it. Previous 2 cars were an E46 M3 and a Z4M roadster. All 3 very different cars, apart from the badge. The E46 M3 engine is one of the best performance engines ever made so the perfrormance of both M cars was awsome.
A few reasons made me move away from these sort of cars onto the 123. Firstly and most obviously- fuel consumption. Yes yes, i knew what they would do before I bought them but I didn't know prices would hit £120 odd a litre! The road tax on the Z4 was £410 a year on top of this and around a grand for insurance. The maintenance is obviously much higher on M cars also.
If you floored it in 2nd and 3rd you'd be doing prison speeds so didn't fancy that being a cop!
Also M cars have a sport button which I hardly ever pressed which just made me realise I wasn't using the cars as they should be used. Most of the time driving as econmically as possible!
Now I've justified to myself I needed to get something a little more sensible, I had no hesitation in making a 123d my first pick. Having been out in a mates, I was so impressed with the performance, handcling and running costs, especially MPG, I'm averaging 45!! The road tax is well over a third cheaper also!
In normal commuting it's just as much fun as the M cars. Clearly this would not be the case on national speed limit blasts on country lanes etc but still very capable.
The looks are very subjective but if you get the right shape (3 door or coupe) and the right colour, I went for championship white, then I think they look awsome. As for the wheels, It's got to be 18's all day long. They look so much better and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference handling wise.
Hope this helps.
A few reasons made me move away from these sort of cars onto the 123. Firstly and most obviously- fuel consumption. Yes yes, i knew what they would do before I bought them but I didn't know prices would hit £120 odd a litre! The road tax on the Z4 was £410 a year on top of this and around a grand for insurance. The maintenance is obviously much higher on M cars also.
If you floored it in 2nd and 3rd you'd be doing prison speeds so didn't fancy that being a cop!
Also M cars have a sport button which I hardly ever pressed which just made me realise I wasn't using the cars as they should be used. Most of the time driving as econmically as possible!
Now I've justified to myself I needed to get something a little more sensible, I had no hesitation in making a 123d my first pick. Having been out in a mates, I was so impressed with the performance, handcling and running costs, especially MPG, I'm averaging 45!! The road tax is well over a third cheaper also!
In normal commuting it's just as much fun as the M cars. Clearly this would not be the case on national speed limit blasts on country lanes etc but still very capable.
The looks are very subjective but if you get the right shape (3 door or coupe) and the right colour, I went for championship white, then I think they look awsome. As for the wheels, It's got to be 18's all day long. They look so much better and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference handling wise.
Hope this helps.
DL-C said:
I,ve had my 123d for around 6 weeks now and am loving it. Previous 2 cars were an E46 M3 and a Z4M roadster. All 3 very different cars, apart from the badge. The E46 M3 engine is one of the best performance engines ever made so the perfrormance of both M cars was awsome.
A few reasons made me move away from these sort of cars onto the 123. Firstly and most obviously- fuel consumption. Yes yes, i knew what they would do before I bought them but I didn't know prices would hit £120 odd a litre! The road tax on the Z4 was £410 a year on top of this and around a grand for insurance. The maintenance is obviously much higher on M cars also.
If you floored it in 2nd and 3rd you'd be doing prison speeds so didn't fancy that being a cop!
Also M cars have a sport button which I hardly ever pressed which just made me realise I wasn't using the cars as they should be used. Most of the time driving as econmically as possible!
Now I've justified to myself I needed to get something a little more sensible, I had no hesitation in making a 123d my first pick. Having been out in a mates, I was so impressed with the performance, handcling and running costs, especially MPG, I'm averaging 45!! The road tax is well over a third cheaper also!
In normal commuting it's just as much fun as the M cars. Clearly this would not be the case on national speed limit blasts on country lanes etc but still very capable.
The looks are very subjective but if you get the right shape (3 door or coupe) and the right colour, I went for championship white, then I think they look awsome. As for the wheels, It's got to be 18's all day long. They look so much better and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference handling wise.
Hope this helps.
Interesting ! I have a Z4M Roadster (though only had it for 7 months) and although I knew all the costs, etc am thinking of changing it for a 123d auto .... though I am not sure I can bring myself to do it - yet !A few reasons made me move away from these sort of cars onto the 123. Firstly and most obviously- fuel consumption. Yes yes, i knew what they would do before I bought them but I didn't know prices would hit £120 odd a litre! The road tax on the Z4 was £410 a year on top of this and around a grand for insurance. The maintenance is obviously much higher on M cars also.
If you floored it in 2nd and 3rd you'd be doing prison speeds so didn't fancy that being a cop!
Also M cars have a sport button which I hardly ever pressed which just made me realise I wasn't using the cars as they should be used. Most of the time driving as econmically as possible!
Now I've justified to myself I needed to get something a little more sensible, I had no hesitation in making a 123d my first pick. Having been out in a mates, I was so impressed with the performance, handcling and running costs, especially MPG, I'm averaging 45!! The road tax is well over a third cheaper also!
In normal commuting it's just as much fun as the M cars. Clearly this would not be the case on national speed limit blasts on country lanes etc but still very capable.
The looks are very subjective but if you get the right shape (3 door or coupe) and the right colour, I went for championship white, then I think they look awsome. As for the wheels, It's got to be 18's all day long. They look so much better and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference handling wise.
Hope this helps.
It's a tough one really. If your driving the car as it should be driven, doing the odd track days etc, I'd say keep it. They're awsome cars and you can't get anything close to it performance and styling wise for the money. If like me your can think of better things to spend all the money you need to shell out to run one then consider the 123. I've not missed the extra power yet. There's also a re map to consider which I will be doing soon. Over 250 bhp and loads of torque!
Advertised my M roadster for around 4 months and finally sold it to a ph'r from Norway! They're hard to sell at any time other than summer especially if spec is pretty standard!
Advertised my M roadster for around 4 months and finally sold it to a ph'r from Norway! They're hard to sell at any time other than summer especially if spec is pretty standard!
I'm quite suprised at the difference in mpg beteen the 120d and 123d... almost makes the 120d the one to have.
My father recently got rid of his E90 330i for a 120d Coupe and is seeing an average of 48/49mpg (mainly short journeys) I might consider one in 3 door guise (for our dog) in the not too distant future.
My father recently got rid of his E90 330i for a 120d Coupe and is seeing an average of 48/49mpg (mainly short journeys) I might consider one in 3 door guise (for our dog) in the not too distant future.
gizlaroc said:
Sitting at 80mpg I think it was around 3000rpm on the auto as well.
123d at 80mph is around 40mpg, the 120d is doing around 51mpg, so quite a difference.
3,000rpm at 80mph seems very low gearing for a diesel auto; I'd have expected 30mph per thousand as a minimum (so 90mph+ at 3,000rpm!). I suppose it's testament to the efficiency of the engine that it will still return decent fuel consumption despite the gearing but I really don't understand why BMW have made it so low given the power and torque the 123d produces.123d at 80mph is around 40mpg, the 120d is doing around 51mpg, so quite a difference.
The difference you state in fuel consumption between a 120d and a 123d is also interesting. I'm not saying you're wrong as you have experience of these machines and I don't; however, looking on BMW's website the official combined figure for the 120d auto is only slightly better than a 123d (53.3mpg v 51.4mpg). Therefore, is there really a fuel consumption difference of more than 25% between the two cars in like for like driving? The 123d isn't giving 25% more performance so is the 120d actually a more attractive proposition?!!
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