Mercs....do they deserve more credit?

[Garlick]

OK, so I admit to being a 'Merc man' but last night I was thinking of the brands history (after looking at some ads in a classic car magazine) and when you look back they have made some bloody good cars.

Not only to they make good luxury cars, they are also good at sports/ powerful cars too yet when discussions are made about fast Germans, BMW M cars are usually the ones remembered most fondly. Why is that? Merc have had great success (quite rightly) with the following:

Silver Arrows racing cars

F1 racing

DTM racing

SL Gullwing

450SEL 6.9

500E

560SEC

190 2.3/2.5-16 and Evolution

C36, 43, 55, 63 AMG

CLK DTM

CLK GTR

S/SL/E/SLK/G/CLK/CLS AMGs

McLaren Mercedes SLR

The new SLS

To name but a few.....

Looking at more normal cars, Saloons such as the W123 were not that exciting when new, but now they are fondly looked back on as some of the best built cars ever made, and they have actually become desirable now. It's a similar story with early S Class models, G Wagens and the W124 saloon and estate.

Was it the fact that most came with automatic gearboxes that turned 'enthusiasts' off? Did the quality issues of the late 90's turn people off? Has the new range lost it's way a little bit? Do we just forget the heritage associated with MB?

Just curious, as its sometime hard to find a true Merc fan, but the BMW boys are two-a-penny. Not knocking BMWs, I like them too but it got me wondering....

Thanks for listening

[E55 Max]

Garlick said:

Just curious, as its sometime hard to find a true Merc fan, but the BMW boys are two-a-penny.

Th

That's because Merc drivers are more discerning and discrete, happy in the knowledge of what they drive is good, whereas BM drivers feel the need to prove oneupmanship as they can never be sure they really bought the right car.....

[Garlick]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

So you agree in a way then? It was the late 90's, early 00's that basically made many forget the great history?

I agree with many of your points though.

[AndrewW-G]

IMHO, even the performance variants are compromised more than the BMW's, by the need to be everything to everybody (the C&SC article comparing the Cosworth 190 with the M3, articulates it far better)
For example, where the BMW M’s have had sportier steering wheels, Benz normally have stuck with their Bus sized one and as we all know, it’s the little details that make the difference with sporty variants of mass produced cars

[bazking69]

The last 10 years have been a particuarly dark patch in an otherwise distingished history. Cost cutting, corner cutting and overcomplicated electronics in the late 90s led to a fall in what was once benchmark build quality.

[CampDavid]

I guess they're too cerebral to get passionate about and the equivalent BMW is more of a "drivers car"

I do love my Mercs though. I'd love to own one suitable for "bahn storming". I had to put up with a 207 diesel on the unrestricted Autobahns around Hamburg last week, it wasn't really the tool for the job

[fatboy18]

I'm sure some finance companies will get you a good deal

[Deva Link]

Garlick said:

Was it the fact that most came with automatic gearboxes that turned 'enthusiasts' off? Did the quality issues of the late 90's turn people off? Has the new range lost it's way a little bit? Do we just forget the heritage associated with MB?

Just curious, as its sometime hard to find a true Merc fan, but the BMW boys are two-a-penny. Not knocking BMWs, I like them too but it got me wondering....

I think, at least in the UK, that they just have an over-riding image of being cars that are driven by older, company director type of people, and the sporty cars haven't really overcome that.

[ZesPak]

E55 Max said:

Garlick said:

Just curious, as its sometime hard to find a true Merc fan, but the BMW boys are two-a-penny.

Th

That's because Merc drivers are more discerning and discrete, happy in the knowledge of what they drive is good, whereas BM drivers feel the need to prove oneupmanship as they can never be sure they really bought the right car.....

beat me to it

Great cars, and while some have fallen to the chav's, tell me which car (of roughly the same era) makes you think most of the chav scene:




I'm actually glad Merc don't have the same reputation as BMW, while they actually more than deserve it.

[BarnatosGhost]

Garlick said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

So you agree in a way then? It was the late 90's, early 00's that basically made many forget the great history?

I agree with many of your points though.

they surrendered the high-ground to play the volume game.

In 10 years their brand centre-of-gravity has shifted from somewhere between the e and s classes to sit firmly on the c class.

The c class used to be the 'baby benz', now it's their core product.

[ZesPak]

The Crack Fox said:

As a 'BM' driver, I have the impression that modern Mercs are primarily designed for the US markets. That probably isn't the case, but autos only, loads of gadgets, bling styling and some BIG and ugly vehicles (R class, ML, S class etc) aren't my cuppa.

However, a small part of me wants an mid '90s Merc SL, for the waft factor, and there is no doubting their history and commitment to making some quick cars..

You mention the big and ugly (forgot the GL btw), but any brand has them, we're talking about the good cars.

You don't want to bring the X6, 5-series GT and 7-series into the big and ugly discussion do you?

[Plotloss]

If you ignore the period from 1995 to 2005 then yes they probably do...

[Garlick]

BarnatosGhost said:

The c class used to be the 'baby benz', now it's their core product.

Very true. I was selling the 190E and C Class when I was in that game, and we used to call them just that. There was some mumbling about Merc lowering the standards by introducing a small car at the time, despite the 190 being a cracking little car.

[williamp]

dont forget, the invented the motor car in the first place! So we all have a lot to thank them for.

However there are still lots of questions over what they did in WW2, and how they were able to recover so quickly...

[ZesPak]

Garlick said:

BarnatosGhost said:

The c class used to be the 'baby benz', now it's their core product.

Very true. I was selling the 190E and C Class when I was in that game, and we used to call them just that. There was some mumbling about Merc lowering the standards by introducing a small car at the time, despite the 190 being a cracking little car.

But isn't that logical? It's putting your product open to more people...
I also see the boxster on the roads a lot more than any 911 (and they have a lot of variations on that one), and the A4/A3 are a lot more common than the A8...

I don't see the point in saying "it was the baby merc and now their core product".

[Garlick]

ZesPak said:

Garlick said:

BarnatosGhost said:

The c class used to be the 'baby benz', now it's their core product.

Very true. I was selling the 190E and C Class when I was in that game, and we used to call them just that. There was some mumbling about Merc lowering the standards by introducing a small car at the time, despite the 190 being a cracking little car.

But isn't that logical? It's putting your product open to more people...
I also see the boxster on the roads a lot more than any 911 (and they have a lot of variations on that one), and the A4/A3 are a lot more common than the A8...

I don't see the point in saying "it was the baby merc and now their core product".

I do agree, it's just that BarnatosGhost reminded me that it was called exactly that when it was launched and really did ruffle some feathers. Odd considering BMW already had the 2002/ 3-Series.

It's a different story today to what it was back then. It's far more 'accepted' as the norm now.

[okgo]

ZesPak said:

E55 Max said:

Garlick said:

Just curious, as its sometime hard to find a true Merc fan, but the BMW boys are two-a-penny.

Th

That's because Merc drivers are more discerning and discrete, happy in the knowledge of what they drive is good, whereas BM drivers feel the need to prove oneupmanship as they can never be sure they really bought the right car.....

beat me to it

Great cars, and while some have fallen to the chav's, tell me which car (of roughly the same era) makes you think most of the chav scene:




I'm actually glad Merc don't have the same reputation as BMW, while they actually more than deserve it.

What a non biased post. Pick and M3 against some cooking POS.

[mat205125]

Some of the most hateful cars I've experienced have been Mercs. The AMG models I've experienced are largely fabulous engines strangled and trapped inside crap cars.

[Garlick]

mat205125 said:

Some of the most hateful cars I've experienced have been Mercs. The AMG models I've experienced are largely fabulous engines strangled and trapped inside crap cars.

Care to expand? I'm interested in what models you tried now!

[ZesPak]

okgo said:

ZesPak said:

E55 Max said:

Garlick said:

Just curious, as its sometime hard to find a true Merc fan, but the BMW boys are two-a-penny.

Th

That's because Merc drivers are more discerning and discrete, happy in the knowledge of what they drive is good, whereas BM drivers feel the need to prove oneupmanship as they can never be sure they really bought the right car.....

beat me to it

Great cars, and while some have fallen to the chav's, tell me which car (of roughly the same era) makes you think most of the chav scene:




I'm actually glad Merc don't have the same reputation as BMW, while they actually more than deserve it.

What a non biased post. Pick and M3 against some cooking POS.

I see you're not biased.
are you arguing that these haven't fallen victim to the chav scene a lot more than the C-classes??



I'm not attacking you or your car, I'm saying that most C-classes still have some dignity left after a couple of years, while the 3-series are seriously falling victims to the chav scene.