Unfair dismissal?
Discussion
I'm a regular on the Pistonheads forums although I don't post very often and I have seen some really good advice on this particular part of the forum. I'm not quite sure of the full story yet until I speak to my sister tomorrow but I was wondering if anyone else thinks this sounds unfair?
My sister started work for a large telecommunications company approximately 4 weeks ago and as far as I am aware she has done 3 weeks training and this week they were setting up their computers and learning the system. On Wednesday they were practicing with headsets which they were told weren't working, my sister mentioned to her supervisor that she could hear somebody through the headset but was told that they weren't working. Her and her friends then proceeded to talk about the weekend and what they had been up to, my sister then started to sing a rap song which had bad language and what may have been perceived as racist language (as a lot of rap songs have). Apparently someone heard over the headset what she was singing and reported her, she was then called into her line managers office and told what had been reported, she explained that she believed the headset not to be working and she was only singing a song. No verbal or written warnings were given and she was sacked on the spot. The person who was training her (not her line manager) told her that she was one of the best people that had done the training in her group and spoke to the line manager but was told the decision was final and would not be changed. My sister is gutted about what has happened and as far as I can tell apart from being a little naive and liking rap music has done nothing else wrong.
Just wanted some feedback from people who know more on this type of subject, do you think this was unfair, is their anything she could do?
Any advice greatly received, Sorry about the long description!
Cheers
Gareth
My sister started work for a large telecommunications company approximately 4 weeks ago and as far as I am aware she has done 3 weeks training and this week they were setting up their computers and learning the system. On Wednesday they were practicing with headsets which they were told weren't working, my sister mentioned to her supervisor that she could hear somebody through the headset but was told that they weren't working. Her and her friends then proceeded to talk about the weekend and what they had been up to, my sister then started to sing a rap song which had bad language and what may have been perceived as racist language (as a lot of rap songs have). Apparently someone heard over the headset what she was singing and reported her, she was then called into her line managers office and told what had been reported, she explained that she believed the headset not to be working and she was only singing a song. No verbal or written warnings were given and she was sacked on the spot. The person who was training her (not her line manager) told her that she was one of the best people that had done the training in her group and spoke to the line manager but was told the decision was final and would not be changed. My sister is gutted about what has happened and as far as I can tell apart from being a little naive and liking rap music has done nothing else wrong.
Just wanted some feedback from people who know more on this type of subject, do you think this was unfair, is their anything she could do?
Any advice greatly received, Sorry about the long description!
Cheers
Gareth
cheers singlecoil, I thought that was the case but am no expert by any means!
condor, I think that is a little harsh she was told the headsets weren't working and that they couldn't do anything till they were sorted, having a chat with other people at work hardly means she was messing around. I regularly sing or hum at work it doesn't mean I am messing around!
condor, I think that is a little harsh she was told the headsets weren't working and that they couldn't do anything till they were sorted, having a chat with other people at work hardly means she was messing around. I regularly sing or hum at work it doesn't mean I am messing around!
mintno1 said:
cheers singlecoil, I thought that was the case but am no expert by any means!
condor, I think that is a little harsh she was told the headsets weren't working and that they couldn't do anything till they were sorted, having a chat with other people at work hardly means she was messing around. I regularly sing or hum at work it doesn't mean I am messing around!
I already knew I would be sounding harsh, but I've employed youngsters ( 18 year olds) and they don't seem to have any inbuilt work ethic. condor, I think that is a little harsh she was told the headsets weren't working and that they couldn't do anything till they were sorted, having a chat with other people at work hardly means she was messing around. I regularly sing or hum at work it doesn't mean I am messing around!
So the headsets weren't working, why did she have them on her head talking into them then? ...or were they on the sidetable while she chatted about last night's TV etc.?
The point I'm trying to make is that she is paid to work, she was doing something else ( ie not working) and has been disciplined for it.
From your initial description she is in the wrong, and should just have knuckled down and done the job she's paid to do ( that doesn't involve chatting...she can do that during coffee break). She didn't and got the sack. Lesson learnt for the next job .
Edited by condor on Saturday 22 May 22:05
I shall be more harsh... The problem is that someone else who has an opinion is the person who receives a report about a new hire, who apparently isn't an outstanding trainee, but they're dicking about, making racist comments and swearing, while using the headset that is presumably their tool for the job. Where's the unfairness if (when?) they get binned?
The more positive news is that, in the grand scheme of things, less than a month's work can probably be glossed over on the CV.
The more positive news is that, in the grand scheme of things, less than a month's work can probably be glossed over on the CV.
Don't forget that in a call centre (am guessing by the use of headsets), you can be overheard by other customers. Singing a rap song is not really the best thing to do in such an environment, whether she is on the phone or not, sorry.
Regarding her performance, she could have been the best person in the world for her job, but wouldn't have been out of her probationary period anyway, so would be on shaky ground to start with anyway.
Regarding her performance, she could have been the best person in the world for her job, but wouldn't have been out of her probationary period anyway, so would be on shaky ground to start with anyway.
If they are anything like a company that starts with a V, then the headphones are just plugged into a second socket on the incoming line and unless the operator (I suppose her trainer in this case) mutes the call then they would hear everything she was talking about and singing as both of the headphones would be active.
When you get more information off her, find out if it was a customer on the other end of that headphone or someone else in the company, seems strange that they would be training you on an internal call...
Whilst it is their fault for not realising the headphones were picking her up the above poster is correct, you can get rid of someone for pretty much any reason, without too much evidence, in their first 3 months. (the other poster said a year...but to be honest it makes no difference in this instance anyway)
The only way she could claim too much would be if she could proove she was sacked because of gender, religous or racial reasons, which was not the case here, so she can't.
Also, find out if it was the company that starts with V, I have heard many rumours that they are very quick to fire people for silly things. (although not heard of one like this before)
When you get more information off her, find out if it was a customer on the other end of that headphone or someone else in the company, seems strange that they would be training you on an internal call...
Whilst it is their fault for not realising the headphones were picking her up the above poster is correct, you can get rid of someone for pretty much any reason, without too much evidence, in their first 3 months. (the other poster said a year...but to be honest it makes no difference in this instance anyway)
The only way she could claim too much would be if she could proove she was sacked because of gender, religous or racial reasons, which was not the case here, so she can't.
Also, find out if it was the company that starts with V, I have heard many rumours that they are very quick to fire people for silly things. (although not heard of one like this before)
Deva Link said:
I think call-centre employers are pretty harsh at the best of times - they're the modern equivalent of dark, satanic mills. Didn't one employee at the call-centre handling swine-flu calls get sacked when she caught swine-flu?
Having worked in and managed call centres for the last 14 years I can tell you that in my experience that's patent b
ks. There's good and bad in every industry of course but I would probably have let this person go too. You just don't do this sort of thing in your first week. (it could well have been a test, I always tell new staff to assume that headsets are live at all times and never to raise their voices or use foul language etc as the bleedover from desk to desk is always dreadful and the mics pick up all sorts.)Pothole said:
....I would probably have let this person go too. You just don't do this sort of thing in your first week. (it could well have been a test, I always tell new staff to assume that headsets are live at all times
You (and I) wouldn't do that sort of thing, but as others have pointed out, kids these days are clueless about how to conduct themselves in the workplace.If she did something she was told not to, then fair enough. But if her training hadn't covered things like assuming the headset was live and, as often happens with training, there was a dead period where nothing was going on, then it does seem rather harsh.
From the employers point of view, it's a bit bonkers - they've wasted time recruiting and training her when a firm word would have made her realise her error.
Obviously we don't know both sides of the story though.
If she's only worked there for 4 weeks, she hasn't got a hope. Unless she can claim discrimination for some reason.
I think as you admit, she's been a little naive and the sack is a harsh lesson but there's probably something about her work ethic over the last few weeks someone didn't like.
All it takes is for someone senior to see something they don't take a shine to and you can be out of the door as a young trainee...
FWIW, I was in a similar situation after I left school. I worked for a company for about 3 months that liked extra hours whether they were required or not and felt that you should move heaven and earth for the company if necessary.
I disagreed and it culminated in them accusing me of temporarily stealing a car. Which I certainly didn't do.
But there was nothing I could do. I wrote to the MD, protesting my innocence and mainly to have it on record that I wasn't a thief but I had to chalk it up to experience, leave it out of the CV and move on.
Lesson learnt.
I think as you admit, she's been a little naive and the sack is a harsh lesson but there's probably something about her work ethic over the last few weeks someone didn't like.
All it takes is for someone senior to see something they don't take a shine to and you can be out of the door as a young trainee...
FWIW, I was in a similar situation after I left school. I worked for a company for about 3 months that liked extra hours whether they were required or not and felt that you should move heaven and earth for the company if necessary.
I disagreed and it culminated in them accusing me of temporarily stealing a car. Which I certainly didn't do.
But there was nothing I could do. I wrote to the MD, protesting my innocence and mainly to have it on record that I wasn't a thief but I had to chalk it up to experience, leave it out of the CV and move on.
Lesson learnt.
Deva Link said:
Pothole said:
....I would probably have let this person go too. You just don't do this sort of thing in your first week. (it could well have been a test, I always tell new staff to assume that headsets are live at all times
You (and I) wouldn't do that sort of thing, but as others have pointed out, kids these days are clueless about how to conduct themselves in the workplace.If she did something she was told not to, then fair enough. But if her training hadn't covered things like assuming the headset was live and, as often happens with training, there was a dead period where nothing was going on, then it does seem rather harsh.
From the employers point of view, it's a bit bonkers - they've wasted time recruiting and training her when a firm word would have made her realise her error.
Obviously we don't know both sides of the story though.
She now has two choices: learn from the experience and go on to do well in whatever she takes on next, or decide that she's a victim (my manager hated me, all I was doing was singing etc) and have the same experience in every job she goes for from now on.
Staffing churn rates are high in call centres, partly because of bad management, but mainly because of the calibre of people who they are forced to take cos nobody good applies.
Strangely the last team I recruited, trained and set to work are all still working for the company I have now left, apart from two who were let go before their probation period ended for similar reasons to the OP's sister. (18/20, not a bad hit rate I don't think) It's not a typical 'battery hen' call centre though.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff