It's your theromstat
Discussion
My old snotter mondeo tdci overheated last night, whilst not producing any heat from the air vents. From that it's obvious that there's no water circulation.
I called the recovery people, who had a tow truck there within 50 mins. The driver had a quick look, confirmed that there was no water circulation and I told him I thought that the water pump had died. He told me that it couldn't be so, a water pump going would have taken the cambelt out.
Brilliant, a supposed professinoal telling me something as a fact. Whilst it's a possibility on a VAG PD engine that a water pump failure can cause cambelt failure, it just can't happen on a Ford.
There's no effing cambelt and the water pump isn't driven of the cam chain.
Fortunately for me I know better, but has anyone else suffered from crap advice from a supposed professional?
I called the recovery people, who had a tow truck there within 50 mins. The driver had a quick look, confirmed that there was no water circulation and I told him I thought that the water pump had died. He told me that it couldn't be so, a water pump going would have taken the cambelt out.
Brilliant, a supposed professinoal telling me something as a fact. Whilst it's a possibility on a VAG PD engine that a water pump failure can cause cambelt failure, it just can't happen on a Ford.
There's no effing cambelt and the water pump isn't driven of the cam chain.
Fortunately for me I know better, but has anyone else suffered from crap advice from a supposed professional?
NiceCupOfTea said:
I would have thought any decent mechanic would have known that some cars' waterpumps are v-belt driven and some are cambelt driven. Are most modern cars off the cambelt though? My Mk.1 MX-5 certainly is, pretty sure Mrs.NCoT's Puma is, but my Saab c900 is v-belt driver iirc.
Unless you're MX-5 has been fitted with a non MX-5 engine, then the water pump is most definitely NOT driven by the cambelt - It's run by a V beltHTH
Superhoop said:
Is does require cambelt removal to replace the water pump, as it's mounted to the front of the cylinder block, behind the belt but it's not run by the cambelt itself
Ah yes - it's when I realised that that I gave up and gave it to somebody else to do! 
Cambelts scare me (even on non interference engines!)That's a refreshing change for the car owner not to take the word of the breakdown company as gospel.
We had a two day old car that was recovered into us with the owner getting quite vocal as he was told that the back axle was about to fall off. We examined it and found that a steel rod had gone through the tread of one of the rear tyres and every time the wheel went round it came into contact with the inside of the wheel rim, making a horrible noise and producing a vibration.
The interesting part was explaining to the customer why the puncture and destruction of the tyre was not covered under warranty and that he had to pay for a new tyre.
We had a two day old car that was recovered into us with the owner getting quite vocal as he was told that the back axle was about to fall off. We examined it and found that a steel rod had gone through the tread of one of the rear tyres and every time the wheel went round it came into contact with the inside of the wheel rim, making a horrible noise and producing a vibration.
The interesting part was explaining to the customer why the puncture and destruction of the tyre was not covered under warranty and that he had to pay for a new tyre.
Edited by mcford on Monday 24th May 06:58
I had exactly the same with a Mondeo TDCi, no hot air from the heater (it was December 23rd as well!) gauge flown up into the red, ECU tripped onto tortoise mode.
I called the man with the van & flashing lights, and told him it's the water pump, "No it's your thermostat" says he, after a few exchanges, he still decides to remove the stat (only held in with 3 small bolts) butchers the middle out of it, puts it back in with no guts to it, tops up the water, exactly the same. "MMM! it must be your water-pump then" so recovers tows me home.
Next bit of the story. Although I could have done the job myself, I would have to work outside, and it was December, but I needed the car for work (I'm part of a 365 days 24/7 job, and I was rostered to work all Christmas.)
I called the local Ford stealer. Told them it was the water-pump, "We'll have to put it on our diagnostic m/c" they say, I tells them that they don't need to, it's definitely the water-pump, but "we have to put it on the diagnostic m/c" I ask how much is that then? "£75 sir" to which I reply that they can put on their m/c, but when it turns out to be the water-pump, I'm not paying £75 for something that I told them without a diagnostic m/c. Anyway they agreed to that.
I got it there the next day and left it with them. The next day whilst at work, I got a phone call from them "You're correct sir, it was the water-pump so we'll not charge for the diagnostic test and we'll have it done for you today about 5pm, cost £350.
2 hour later, another phone call from them, "Sorry to tell you sir, the water-pump is driven by a shaft from the power steering pump, which is also knackered, and we'll have to get a new poer steering pump in for you, it'll now be tomorrow"
The day after, I called them to see if it was ready and how much.............I should have sat down!!!!!
£650 sir!!!!!
I went to pick it up, and I asked them if they'd fitted a new thermostat as the recovery agent had butchered it, "No sir, it's OK, our technician has tested it" I then had an arguament with their receptionist guy, who only gave in as there was an RAC patrolman there, who confirmed that they remove the innards of the stat when it's an overheating problem.
"You'll have to book it in again" he say.
Now I'm getting somewhat pee'd off, after being £650 lighter, and the job not done correctly, the manager then got his ear bent, I explained to him that it was 3 small bolts and would take less than 5 minutes to do, and should have been noticed anyway.
So it went back into the workshop, appeared out in 10 mins with a new thermostat, and a further bill for £32 (The price of the stat) I challenged this, saying that I could buy one for £5 at any motor accessory shop, to which I got the reply "Ah but this is genuine FORD" (made by WAXSTAT but with FORD stamped on it!) I gave up, but not before going into their spares dept and checking the price of it if I'd bought it over the counter, £32!
I was now £682 lighter, and the plastic card had to be melted.
Needless to say, I was never happy with that car afterwards, it had cost me a fortune so I got rid after a couple of months.
I called the man with the van & flashing lights, and told him it's the water pump, "No it's your thermostat" says he, after a few exchanges, he still decides to remove the stat (only held in with 3 small bolts) butchers the middle out of it, puts it back in with no guts to it, tops up the water, exactly the same. "MMM! it must be your water-pump then" so recovers tows me home.
Next bit of the story. Although I could have done the job myself, I would have to work outside, and it was December, but I needed the car for work (I'm part of a 365 days 24/7 job, and I was rostered to work all Christmas.)
I called the local Ford stealer. Told them it was the water-pump, "We'll have to put it on our diagnostic m/c" they say, I tells them that they don't need to, it's definitely the water-pump, but "we have to put it on the diagnostic m/c" I ask how much is that then? "£75 sir" to which I reply that they can put on their m/c, but when it turns out to be the water-pump, I'm not paying £75 for something that I told them without a diagnostic m/c. Anyway they agreed to that.
I got it there the next day and left it with them. The next day whilst at work, I got a phone call from them "You're correct sir, it was the water-pump so we'll not charge for the diagnostic test and we'll have it done for you today about 5pm, cost £350.
2 hour later, another phone call from them, "Sorry to tell you sir, the water-pump is driven by a shaft from the power steering pump, which is also knackered, and we'll have to get a new poer steering pump in for you, it'll now be tomorrow"
The day after, I called them to see if it was ready and how much.............I should have sat down!!!!!
£650 sir!!!!!
I went to pick it up, and I asked them if they'd fitted a new thermostat as the recovery agent had butchered it, "No sir, it's OK, our technician has tested it" I then had an arguament with their receptionist guy, who only gave in as there was an RAC patrolman there, who confirmed that they remove the innards of the stat when it's an overheating problem.
"You'll have to book it in again" he say.
Now I'm getting somewhat pee'd off, after being £650 lighter, and the job not done correctly, the manager then got his ear bent, I explained to him that it was 3 small bolts and would take less than 5 minutes to do, and should have been noticed anyway.
So it went back into the workshop, appeared out in 10 mins with a new thermostat, and a further bill for £32 (The price of the stat) I challenged this, saying that I could buy one for £5 at any motor accessory shop, to which I got the reply "Ah but this is genuine FORD" (made by WAXSTAT but with FORD stamped on it!) I gave up, but not before going into their spares dept and checking the price of it if I'd bought it over the counter, £32!
I was now £682 lighter, and the plastic card had to be melted.
Needless to say, I was never happy with that car afterwards, it had cost me a fortune so I got rid after a couple of months.
Edited by Gafferjim on Monday 24th May 08:36
Gafferjim said:
Needless to say, I was never happy with that car afterwards, it had cost me a fortune so I got rid after a couple of months.
Never quite understood this; you have fixed a common failure on a car (at some expense) so now that the car is unlikely to suffer from this failure again, you get rid of it?I had a sudden loss of drive with crunching noises from the clutch housing on a RWD front engined car once. I called the yellow van man for recovery and he said "It's the hydraulics, sir". When I questioned how a failed hydraulic system could: (a) cause a crunching noise from the clutch housing, and (b) wouldn't loss of clutch disengagement result from failed hydraulics and how did that stack up with total loss of drive? He was puzzled by the question but recovered the car to my house where I unsurprisingly found that the centre had broken out of the clutch friction plate so that the flywheel was no longer connected to the gearbox input shaft. A pretty fundamental misunderstanding on behalf of the roadside 'expert'.
Mr2Mike said:
Gafferjim said:
Needless to say, I was never happy with that car afterwards, it had cost me a fortune so I got rid after a couple of months.
Never quite understood this; you have fixed a common failure on a car (at some expense) so now that the car is unlikely to suffer from this failure again, you get rid of it?I know a few people who do this. Fix all the common faults (which I'd do pre-emtively or keep a keen eye on from new, so they were all lovely while I owned the car) when the finally fail, then say the car is unreliable, and sell it on so the next owner gets it's cheap (distressed sale), and fully reliable
You just can't explain to some people
Dave
Mr2Mike said:
Gafferjim said:
Needless to say, I was never happy with that car afterwards, it had cost me a fortune so I got rid after a couple of months.
Never quite understood this; you have fixed a common failure on a car (at some expense) so now that the car is unlikely to suffer from this failure again, you get rid of it?If it was normal wear and tear on a well used 2nd hand car, then it would be acceptable, but this mondeo didn't have 40k on the clock.
The car that I bought after the Mondeo has been an absolute peach, I've had it now 4½ years, and only replaced the usual service items & tyres, now that's what I call reliable.
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