Dropped in the drink, now it won't start...

[eltax91]

Hi folks

I went to my first play day at Sibbertoft on Sunday in my 200TDi Disco. Inexperience saw me stuck in the drink for about 2 minutes. The water was (roughly) up to the top of the wheel nuts, the disco has a 2" lift.

Anyway, the old girl soldiered on for another 4 hours of off roading, plenty of stops and starts during that time - around 10 I'd say for various reasons. Lunch, jet wash etc etc

So, it's now two days later and is dried out, I have gone to move it this evening and it won't start - procedure as follows:-

Car opens/ closes on the button no worries - so we have power
Turn to "position 1" - all dash lights come on, glow plug light goes out
Turn to "position 2" and NOTHING, no turn, no attempt to even cough, just silence...

So, any thoughts? Have I goosed the starter? Or the immobilizer? Blown a fuse?

Any thoughts greatly received. I'm not scared of a spanner, but electrics are not my bag.

[BLUETHUNDER]

Check for a blown fuse first. Then suspect the starter. But from what you have described i would say fuse.

[jagracer]

Check the small wire that goes to the starter solenoid, you may have to remove or loosen the aluminium heat shield to get to it. They can come loose and fall off.

[eltax91]

Thanks for the replies, if it was the fuse, would it have "warm started" during the 4 hours after being in the drink? Or could it have fused when I turned the key for the first time today after drying out?

[eliot]

short out the two big posts on the solenoid with a 1/2" breaker bar and see if it cranks.

[jagracer]

The fuse would be the first thing to check and the easiest option. If they're OK try running a wire directly from the + battery to the solenoid to see if the starter turns (make sure it's in neutral). Another problem I had with my 200 was the fused links in the main battery wire, this gave the same symptoms as yours plus IIRC the indicators didn't work, there's three circuits from memory. These are the easy things to eliminate first before you start looking for complicated stuff. Don't forget that Discos are designed to run in a couple of feet of water so your problem is probably coincidental.

[eltax91]

Hi all. Thanks for the responses - much obliged. I'll give it a whack with a hammer, just in case!! When i turn to position 2, i literally get nothing. Had a quick look around the wiring from battery and can't see any obvious area's of concern. Where is the fuse for the starter? I had a look in the fuse panel under the steering wheel - none of them appear to be for the starter - is there another fuse box with engine ancillary's in? When I get back from work tomorrow i'm going to get the multimeter out.

The suggestion of running a wire from battery to solenoid, then starter after that - good plan. Can I use any old wire? Even household stuff, or do I need to rip apart my jump leads to do it? Or can I just put one clip on the +ve terminal and touch the other clip on the solenoid terminal, then the starter terminal?

Cheers for help so far, i'm learning all the time, good news is it's a toy not a daily, so I can take my time and test.

[jagracer]

eltax91 said:

Hi all. Thanks for the responses - much obliged. I'll give it a whack with a hammer, just in case!! When i turn to position 2, i literally get nothing. Had a quick look around the wiring from battery and can't see any obvious area's of concern. Where is the fuse for the starter? I had a look in the fuse panel under the steering wheel - none of them appear to be for the starter - is there another fuse box with engine ancillary's in? When I get back from work tomorrow i'm going to get the multimeter out.

The suggestion of running a wire from battery to solenoid, then starter after that - good plan. Can I use any old wire? Even household stuff, or do I need to rip apart my jump leads to do it? Or can I just put one clip on the +ve terminal and touch the other clip on the solenoid terminal, then the starter terminal?

Cheers for help so far, i'm learning all the time, good news is it's a toy not a daily, so I can take my time and test.

According to my handbook the starter isn't fused, can't check on the car as it's at our stables. You only need one small wire from the battery to the starter solenoid. There is a small black wire goes to the top of the starter, this is the solenoid. check that's still properly in place. If it all seems Ok then you need to put power to this terminal from the + side of the battery, what I did with mine was to get a bit of wire with a connector on and push it on to terminal, then touch the other end to the battery, that way you needn't worry about shorting the wire by accident.
Also check the thick wire that goes onto the starter for tightness, plus check the other end at the battery and also all the earth straps as these give trouble on 200s.
The fused link is in the main cable that runs from the battery about six inches from the terminal IIRC, the trouble is you will need to strip the cable to check it so maybe do that as a last resort. Also check if you have side lights and or headlights working.

Edited by jagracer on Wednesday 26th May 13:17

[cpas]

My 90 suffers with crap getting into either to solonoid or brushes when off roading. It is OK unless I leave it for a couple of days for the crud to dry out then it won't work. A sharp tap on the top of the solonoid always sorts it out.

[Deva Link]

eltax91 said:

Or the immobilizer?

Immobiliser would give those symptoms.

Have you got another key you can try? I've had 2 cars (not LR's) that would do this randomly and locking them and unlocking again would allow them to start.

[eltax91]

Deva Link said:

eltax91 said:

Or the immobilizer?

Immobiliser would give those symptoms.

Have you got another key you can try? I've had 2 cars (not LR's) that would do this randomly and locking them and unlocking again would allow them to start.

I tried locking/ unlocking loads. I don't think it's the immob. as it's giving power to other stuff, radio windows etc work. I'm going to start with the hammer tap and work my way up!!

[eltax91]

Well, I got a tow start from a guy over the road with a Defender! And away it went, in second gear, as soon as it started rolling. So, must be the starter then - the heat shield is off already and I'll be getting the starter off on Saturday for a clean up and re-fit. Wish me luck!!

[eliot]

starter motors are not waterproof, despite beeing so low in the car.

[jagracer]

eltax91 said:

Well, I got a tow start from a guy over the road with a Defender! And away it went, in second gear, as soon as it started rolling. So, must be the starter then - the heat shield is off already and I'll be getting the starter off on Saturday for a clean up and re-fit. Wish me luck!!

Have you tested it before you go to the trouble of removing it?

[FactoryPilot]

This sounds stupid but I had the exact same problem and symptoms on my old defender.... after much messing and timewasting it turned out to be the battery! Enough juice for all the lights to light up etc, but as i turned it to position 2, everything went out and there just wasn't enough to crank it over.

[cpas]

eltax91 said:

Well, I got a tow start from a guy over the road with a Defender! And away it went, in second gear, as soon as it started rolling. So, must be the starter then - the heat shield is off already and I'll be getting the starter off on Saturday for a clean up and re-fit. Wish me luck!!

Not necessarily - it could be anything in the line to the starter motor. It will bump-start as long as the fuel cut-off solonoid is working!!

[eltax91]

cpas said:

eltax91 said:

Well, I got a tow start from a guy over the road with a Defender! And away it went, in second gear, as soon as it started rolling. So, must be the starter then - the heat shield is off already and I'll be getting the starter off on Saturday for a clean up and re-fit. Wish me luck!!

Not necessarily - it could be anything in the line to the starter motor. It will bump-start as long as the fuel cut-off solenoid is working!!

Ah ok - well in the process of loosening the bolts on the starter (to check how much of a PITA they will be) i accidentally dragged the extension bar and bridged the two contacts between solenoid and starter! A little spark erupted so I'm assuming it has power.

Will be testing it with some wire before I remove it fully.

[cpas]

eltax91 said:

cpas said:

eltax91 said:

Well, I got a tow start from a guy over the road with a Defender! And away it went, in second gear, as soon as it started rolling. So, must be the starter then - the heat shield is off already and I'll be getting the starter off on Saturday for a clean up and re-fit. Wish me luck!!

Not necessarily - it could be anything in the line to the starter motor. It will bump-start as long as the fuel cut-off solenoid is working!!

Ah ok - well in the process of loosening the bolts on the starter (to check how much of a PITA they will be) i accidentally dragged the extension bar and bridged the two contacts between solenoid and starter! A little spark erupted so I'm assuming it has power.

Will be testing it with some wire before I remove it fully.

Probably best to take it out anyway and clean up the contacts in the solonoid and brushes - and replace the brushes if they're really bed.

[eltax91]

Update on this is I got the starter off, cleaned up the solenoid and couldn't get the "brush" top off! It didn't look too bad inside.

I've given it some serious hammer to try to break up the mud etc but no joy, when I give it a positive feed off my jump pack it is totally dead! So, it's going to a refurb shop this week, and I'm off to pick up a 2nd starter from a car being broken nearby. Then I'll have two to keep swapping them.

[eltax91]

Well. The old girl fires now! 2nd hand starter for 40 quid from an eBay breaker. Got one to have as a standby next time it goes into the water.