Old School Touring Cars - Cosworth v E30 M3
Discussion
Hi everyone,
I’m in a debate with a colleague with regards to his Sapphire Cosworth and my E30 M3.
Let’s see if we can clear it up on here as I’m sure between us all we can get the right answer!!!!
Q. Was the BMW E30 M3 a group A touring car or group B, and did it beat and win more than the Cosworths?
Take it away........................
I’m in a debate with a colleague with regards to his Sapphire Cosworth and my E30 M3.
Let’s see if we can clear it up on here as I’m sure between us all we can get the right answer!!!!
Q. Was the BMW E30 M3 a group A touring car or group B, and did it beat and win more than the Cosworths?
Take it away........................
The BTCC had a multi-class system prior to 1991 and the RS Cosworth (not Sapphire) and M3 competed in different classes.
The Cossy had a long string of BTCC race wins as they were about the only car used in that class, whereas the M3 won the next class down.
So when you say "beat" do you mean race wins or championship wins?
Andy Rouse did prepare many of the cars, but Eggenburger in Germany and Dick Johnson in Oz also build many of those seen in the BTCC and other championships.
The Cossy had a long string of BTCC race wins as they were about the only car used in that class, whereas the M3 won the next class down.
So when you say "beat" do you mean race wins or championship wins?
Andy Rouse did prepare many of the cars, but Eggenburger in Germany and Dick Johnson in Oz also build many of those seen in the BTCC and other championships.
Edited by supertouring on Wednesday 26th May 23:34
Cossie and M3 were both homologated into Group A with 5000 units being made. Both vehicles had evolution models homologated at 500 units each.
While the M3 won championships based on one consistently good driver winning their class (e.g. Frank Sytner) the Sierra Cosworth RS500 was a noticeably faster car.
Put two 'works' cars back to back with a top driver and the RS500 would out-qualify and out race an M3 Evo on any dry Grand Prix style circuit.
The M3 might have made 400 bhp on a good day whereas the RS500 could make 500 to 550 bhp. That is a very significant difference and very difficult to make up for especially on tracks with longish straights.
While the M3 won championships based on one consistently good driver winning their class (e.g. Frank Sytner) the Sierra Cosworth RS500 was a noticeably faster car.
Put two 'works' cars back to back with a top driver and the RS500 would out-qualify and out race an M3 Evo on any dry Grand Prix style circuit.
The M3 might have made 400 bhp on a good day whereas the RS500 could make 500 to 550 bhp. That is a very significant difference and very difficult to make up for especially on tracks with longish straights.
supertouring said:
The BTCC had a multi-class system prior to 1991 and the RS Cosworth (not Sapphire) and M3 competed in different classes.
The Cossy had a long string of BTCC race wins as they were about the only car used in that class, whereas the M3 won the next class down.
So when you say "beat" do you mean race wins or championship wins?
Andy Rouse did prepare many of the cars, but Eggenburger in Germany and Dick Johnson in Oz also build many of those seen in the BTCC and other championships.
I was meaning race wins, and overall championship wins.The Cossy had a long string of BTCC race wins as they were about the only car used in that class, whereas the M3 won the next class down.
So when you say "beat" do you mean race wins or championship wins?
Andy Rouse did prepare many of the cars, but Eggenburger in Germany and Dick Johnson in Oz also build many of those seen in the BTCC and other championships.
Edited by supertouring on Wednesday 26th May 23:34
Thanks for all the input guys, clears most of it up!
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