modern engines - reliability
Discussion
starting this on the back of a couple of interesting comments on the thread regarding the new VW polo.
For various reasons, there does seem to be a lot of talk regarding the reliability, mostly long term, of modern engines.
There are some obvious candidates that spring to mind which are often talked about, such as
BMW Vanos issues
Porsche RMS issues
VW DSG 'boxes and remaps
and so on
of course, as engines get older, they wear out. fact. but it does often amaze me that some people genuinely do take issue with new cars, saying that there could potentially be issues with engines or drivetrains in the short/mid-term. Sure, the odd glitch may see a batch of cars be recalled but am i the only one naive enough to think that the modern motorcar is engineered to a degree that ensures its longevity for a reasonable amount of time?!
Some prime candidates for example i guess would be a honda S2000 and an impreza or evo. All highly strung engines but still going strong in cars which are 10years old.
The japs previously ruled the roost in terms of engine design but i personally dont think its too much to expect that our european neighbours are now upto a standard where their engines are reasonably bulletproof....
For various reasons, there does seem to be a lot of talk regarding the reliability, mostly long term, of modern engines.
There are some obvious candidates that spring to mind which are often talked about, such as
BMW Vanos issues
Porsche RMS issues
VW DSG 'boxes and remaps
and so on
of course, as engines get older, they wear out. fact. but it does often amaze me that some people genuinely do take issue with new cars, saying that there could potentially be issues with engines or drivetrains in the short/mid-term. Sure, the odd glitch may see a batch of cars be recalled but am i the only one naive enough to think that the modern motorcar is engineered to a degree that ensures its longevity for a reasonable amount of time?!
Some prime candidates for example i guess would be a honda S2000 and an impreza or evo. All highly strung engines but still going strong in cars which are 10years old.
The japs previously ruled the roost in terms of engine design but i personally dont think its too much to expect that our european neighbours are now upto a standard where their engines are reasonably bulletproof....
snorkel sucker said:
The japs previously ruled the roost in terms of engine design but i personally dont think its too much to expect that our european neighbours are now upto a standard where their engines are reasonably bulletproof....
I would say the tolerances on most engine blocks and heads are so good they'll go on for a long time. It's the ancillary parts and their quality (or lack of it) that would concern me, particularly with the current emmission legislation encouraging engines with turbos and highly complex fuel injection systems.In their own right and serviced properly they should be fine, but I don't believe they stand up as well to abuse and lack of servicing compared to less sensitive, slightly older designs less reliant on them.
10 Pence Short said:
snorkel sucker said:
The japs previously ruled the roost in terms of engine design but i personally dont think its too much to expect that our european neighbours are now upto a standard where their engines are reasonably bulletproof....
I would say the tolerances on most engine blocks and heads are so good they'll go on for a long time. It's the ancillary parts and their quality (or lack of it) that would concern me, particularly with the current emmission legislation encouraging engines with turbos and highly complex fuel injection systems.In their own right and serviced properly they should be fine, but I don't believe they stand up as well to abuse and lack of servicing compared to less sensitive, slightly older designs less reliant on them.
It's emission controls that break modern engines IMHO.
Take the Fiat/Alfa/GM 1.9 diesel. 150hp, easy remap to 200hp, fantastic engine. IF you ignore the EGR and DPF problems that plague the engine. New inlet manifold by 60k on the most part, EGRs can last anywhere between 20k and 50k before needing replaced.
Without the EGR, catalysts and DPF, there's little goes wrong, even with silly remaps.
Take the Fiat/Alfa/GM 1.9 diesel. 150hp, easy remap to 200hp, fantastic engine. IF you ignore the EGR and DPF problems that plague the engine. New inlet manifold by 60k on the most part, EGRs can last anywhere between 20k and 50k before needing replaced.
Without the EGR, catalysts and DPF, there's little goes wrong, even with silly remaps.
HellDiver said:
It's emission controls that break modern engines IMHO.
.
Yup. Cars now have to run so much more lean, which brings about all it's own problems. Then you've got even more elecronic control to help keep it running lean. And higher fuel injector pressures etc etc. Plus of course, the big companies are constantly cutting manufacturing costs in labour and materials..
Oh and if your Golf lasts for 10 years, you won't buy another for 10 years. Better (in marketting terms) to have a car that lasts 5 years.
The key to reliability is frequent servicing. I've seen a few VW group 1.8 engines with blocked oil pickups leading to low oil pressure, this I attribute to VWs variable servicing and incorrect oil used for topping up. Some of it is down to ignorance, it's a new car so it won't use any oil, if it goes wrong it's covered under the warranty. They're in for a shock when they find out that the warranty is there to cover defects in materials and workmanship, not their inability to carry out basic checks.
Some of it is down to design, some French diesel engines have their fuel injectors in an alloy housing in the head. If the head has to be removed the injectors have to be removed to access the head bolts. The steel injectors seize into the alloy housing, so if they can't be removed a new engine and injectors are required.
Other times it's down to faulty components or engine assembly.
Some of it is down to design, some French diesel engines have their fuel injectors in an alloy housing in the head. If the head has to be removed the injectors have to be removed to access the head bolts. The steel injectors seize into the alloy housing, so if they can't be removed a new engine and injectors are required.
Other times it's down to faulty components or engine assembly.
pilchardthecat said:
In my experience the engine and major mechanicals aren't the things to worry about.
It's the electronic xyz that always seems to fail.
This may be the general rule. It's the electronic xyz that always seems to fail.
Unless you own an Alfa twinspark, in which case you really do need to worry about your cambelt.
Or if you have a K Series, in which case you really do need to worry about your head gasket.
Or if you own a Ford TDCi, in which you really do need to worry about your dual mass flywheel.
HellDiver said:
It's emission controls that break modern engines IMHO.
Take the Fiat/Alfa/GM 1.9 diesel. 150hp, easy remap to 200hp, fantastic engine. IF you ignore the EGR and DPF problems that plague the engine. New inlet manifold by 60k on the most part, EGRs can last anywhere between 20k and 50k before needing replaced.
Without the EGR, catalysts and DPF, there's little goes wrong, even with silly remaps.
Yep. 26k when the EGR valve stuck, repair rather than replace thoughTake the Fiat/Alfa/GM 1.9 diesel. 150hp, easy remap to 200hp, fantastic engine. IF you ignore the EGR and DPF problems that plague the engine. New inlet manifold by 60k on the most part, EGRs can last anywhere between 20k and 50k before needing replaced.
Without the EGR, catalysts and DPF, there's little goes wrong, even with silly remaps.
The only old cars of the future will be really old cars, if you know what I mean. Anything built in the last decade or so will be unlikely to be around in 30-40 years as they will be uneconomical/impossible to remain viable. Can you imagine trying to get bits for a V10 M5 engine in 40 years time? You'll probably have to put a small block Chevy in it just to keep it running.
As has been said, it's not the main mechanical bits that will be trouble, but the peripheral s
t such as sensors etc.
As has been said, it's not the main mechanical bits that will be trouble, but the peripheral s
t such as sensors etc.Hence my fleet includes a 80 series Landcruiser - they don't come much simpler on the mechanical front, fuel goes in (quite a lot) its explodes & comes out the other end & it moves forward. No nannying electronics on the engine side at all. It no doubt will be still be going in another 10 years just fine.
I'm old, so remember engines that needed decoking at 30K miles, rebuilding at 50K miles, or less.
Although that rebuilding was within the scope of the reasonably able home mechanic, with the help of the relevant Haynes or Autobooks manual and the local machine shop specialising in crank grinding and block boring.
Modern engines, as others have said, are basically much more reliable, when did you last see a petrol engine emitting clouds of fumes, it's the control systems attached that can give problems.
Yet, I was a trifle worried when, in 1989, I bought my first ECU equipped injection car, it did 104K miles with us in 10 years, with no engine problems, bar an ICV that needed a clean, sold to a friend who kept it for 6 years and had no engine problems.
I do think that the 1990s cars though might be be the ones that will prove to be the most reliable.
Although that rebuilding was within the scope of the reasonably able home mechanic, with the help of the relevant Haynes or Autobooks manual and the local machine shop specialising in crank grinding and block boring.
Modern engines, as others have said, are basically much more reliable, when did you last see a petrol engine emitting clouds of fumes, it's the control systems attached that can give problems.
Yet, I was a trifle worried when, in 1989, I bought my first ECU equipped injection car, it did 104K miles with us in 10 years, with no engine problems, bar an ICV that needed a clean, sold to a friend who kept it for 6 years and had no engine problems.
I do think that the 1990s cars though might be be the ones that will prove to be the most reliable.
pilchardthecat said:
It's the electronic xyz that always seems to fail.
I'm willing to bet that modern "electronickery" cars are still massively more reliable than old "simple mechanical" cars ever were.50,000 miles used to be considered high mileage!
Has your engine needed a de-coke recently? Main bearing failure?
Gassing Station | General Gassing [Archive] | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff