Discussion
Hi Guys,
I'm looking for a kit car at the moment.
My budget is around £5000.
Basically would you go for a bec or a cec?
I'm not bothered about having a nice comfortable drive. It will be my second car and i will be planning to drive it a fair bit on road and track.
My preferences for a car would be either an mk indy for a BEC or a sylva striker for a CEC.
I'm a bit stuck of what to go for though. I do like the sylva and at the moment it's probably my favourite kit, otherwise for a regular size caterham copy, i've been a fan of the mk for a while.
For clarity i'm looking for a completed road legal car.
Any help would be appreciated for kinda of benefits/cons for becs and cecs.
Regards,
Andy
I'm looking for a kit car at the moment.
My budget is around £5000.
Basically would you go for a bec or a cec?
I'm not bothered about having a nice comfortable drive. It will be my second car and i will be planning to drive it a fair bit on road and track.
My preferences for a car would be either an mk indy for a BEC or a sylva striker for a CEC.
I'm a bit stuck of what to go for though. I do like the sylva and at the moment it's probably my favourite kit, otherwise for a regular size caterham copy, i've been a fan of the mk for a while.
For clarity i'm looking for a completed road legal car.
Any help would be appreciated for kinda of benefits/cons for becs and cecs.
Regards,
Andy
Bargain!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
Nowt to do with me, just think it's great value.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
Nowt to do with me, just think it's great value.
rdodger said:
Bargain!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
Nowt to do with me, just think it's great value.
bloody hell!http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
Nowt to do with me, just think it's great value.
that does seem like a bargain of the century
That does seem quite bargainous, but i'm definitely after a seven type kitcar.
I'll give the two i've got my eye on so far:
Sylva 1600
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1748281.htm
or MK Indy R1
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1752194.htm
I'll give the two i've got my eye on so far:
Sylva 1600
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1748281.htm
or MK Indy R1
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1752194.htm
As said, you'll have a pretty limited choice of BEC's within your budget range.
In terms of the car engine vs. bike engine debate, it's been discussed to death. The 'search' button is your friend:
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...the only thing I'd add is that if your budget is limited, the usual argument that bike engines are cheap enough to be considered a disposable service item when they or their gearboxes grenade themselves may be something you want to think about; you may baulk at a £1,000+ 'service item'.
In terms of the car engine vs. bike engine debate, it's been discussed to death. The 'search' button is your friend:
link
link
link
link
link
link
link
link
link
link
link
link
link
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...the only thing I'd add is that if your budget is limited, the usual argument that bike engines are cheap enough to be considered a disposable service item when they or their gearboxes grenade themselves may be something you want to think about; you may baulk at a £1,000+ 'service item'.
To make it very simple, for anyone deciding if they want a BEC or a CEC means they will probably get on just fine with both, so use the following as a guide:
A car that's going to be used more on track than road - get a BEC.
A car that's going to be used more on road than track - get a CEC.
For more in-depth reading on the subject, follow sam-68's links.
A car that's going to be used more on track than road - get a BEC.
A car that's going to be used more on road than track - get a CEC.
For more in-depth reading on the subject, follow sam-68's links.
rdodger said:
Bargain!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
Nowt to do with me, just think it's great value.
If anyones interested in this car, I've seen it, it's nice.http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
Nowt to do with me, just think it's great value.
Pinto or R1.
Crossflow is old hat. So is pinto but I've heard nothing but good things about them. For the same money I think you'd need your head checking getting the crossflow car over the R1.
Before die hard crossflow fans come and strike me down, it's just my opinion and I'm entitled to it.
Crossflow is old hat. So is pinto but I've heard nothing but good things about them. For the same money I think you'd need your head checking getting the crossflow car over the R1.
Before die hard crossflow fans come and strike me down, it's just my opinion and I'm entitled to it.
yazza54 said:
Crossflow is old hat. So is pinto but I've heard nothing but good things about them.
Well, we can soon remedy that! 
The Pinto is a vast and grossly overweight lump of cast iron with a low specific power output; it's heavy enough to have a noticeable adverse effect on the handling of a very lighweight car like a Seven.
It also has chocolate camshafts due to a poor oil feed system on the top end, and doesn't like to rev.
It has two, and only two things in its favour:
- You can pick them up virtually free with any rotting Sierra.
- It has more torque than a Crossflow
The Crossflow is certainly old hat, but if your budget doesn't run to a Zetec or other modern 16-valve, it's one of the better options available and certainly beats the Pinto into a cocked hat. The only 'old generation' engine that I'd see as preferable to the Crossflow, within your budget range, would be the Fiat/Lancia Twin Cam, but they're pretty thin on the ground - you see the occasional Sylva or Westfield fitted with them, but they're certainly not commonplace.
Edited by Sam_68 on Tuesday 1st June 12:54
Yeah i'd actually heard nothing but bad things about the pinto.
It appears that it may be ok reliability wise and may produce a reasonable amount of power, but is as heavy as the titanic at the same time.
As for the crossflow, i wasn't that bothered about it being an antique assuming it's not going to crumble apart like a woodworm ridden table.
The only other concern would be power. From my initial findings, you'd be lucky to get 130hp out of an xflow if that? Am i wrong? I would be hoping to have somewhere in the 150hp mark. I know 130 would be a reasonable amount of power considering the weight, but i'm just very fussy and have certain aspirations for the car....
It appears that it may be ok reliability wise and may produce a reasonable amount of power, but is as heavy as the titanic at the same time.
As for the crossflow, i wasn't that bothered about it being an antique assuming it's not going to crumble apart like a woodworm ridden table.
The only other concern would be power. From my initial findings, you'd be lucky to get 130hp out of an xflow if that? Am i wrong? I would be hoping to have somewhere in the 150hp mark. I know 130 would be a reasonable amount of power considering the weight, but i'm just very fussy and have certain aspirations for the car....
Pekwah1 said:
From my initial findings, you'd be lucky to get 130hp out of an xflow if that? Am i wrong? I would be hoping to have somewhere in the 150hp mark. I know 130 would be a reasonable amount of power considering the weight, but i'm just very fussy and have certain aspirations for the car....
No, you're about right. You can get more than 130bhp out of a Crossflow (the one in my Sylva is about 145-150bhp; an ex-750 Club race engine), but anything above about 130 (genuine) bhp starts getting pretty expensive to build and tractability starts to suffer for road use. If you want those sorts of power levels, you're better off saving up a bit more and going for a Zetec or Vauxhall 16 valve engined car.
My Sylva will shortly be going up for sale at around £3.5-£4K, so a Crossflow-engined car of that spec. within your budget is certainly possible, but don't expect it to be a minter!
What kind of performance do you get with that power?
Basically i've always had silly jap turbo cars of late, so want something that will compete in a straight line with the last one (well up to a ton anyway).
So i guess i'm wanting a 0-60 of around 5sec and to be fairly comfortable up to 100.
you should give me a shout when you're selling, i could be interested...
Basically i've always had silly jap turbo cars of late, so want something that will compete in a straight line with the last one (well up to a ton anyway).
So i guess i'm wanting a 0-60 of around 5sec and to be fairly comfortable up to 100.
you should give me a shout when you're selling, i could be interested...
Pekwah1 said:
What kind of performance do you get with that power?
I haven't accurately timed it, but it was noticeably quicker than K-series Sport 160 Elise, so purely subjectively I'd guess you'd be looking at not more than 5 seconds 0-60, maybe 12-13 seconds 0-100, and 135mph+ top speed.But that's with the Phoenix/Clubmans bodyshell, which is a lot more aerodynamic than a 'normal' Seven.
With a similar spec. Crossflow in a conventional Seven, you're looking at a similar 0-60 time (maybe a couple of tenths slower?), but top end performance is dramatically blunted and realistically you're not likely see much the far side of 120mph in terms of top speed. Also, the Sylva is one of the lighter cars (mine was 509 kilos last time it was on the scales, IIRC, though it's probably put on a few pounds since then).
Low end (0-60) acceleration (and handling, for that matter) is closely dependent on quality of tyres and damping, on these sorts of cars mind you. I've softened mine off quite a bit for road use (130lb rear springs now compared to 180lb back in its race days, for exampe); it used to be impossible to put the power down on anything less than a perfectly smooth surface when it was running race springs, but you'll find many people are running springs and dampers that are way too stiff to work properly on 'Sevens' just because they've heard that's what the racers use.
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